Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:123954
Precedence: bulk
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAEUnE0fGZ3jFiBG=GyvnhBzH5a0iO4=n75PM=3+6zLAMrumEvA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADK1yX+E9mvaM_CHJ8tmEx=O70hf8xasbvngh4wvNM8ce8KKGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMrTa2GV7nyJ_Nq-QyNi5650smKT+gg1HhkUZiCNXrnDXiDoAw@mail.gmail.com> <CAEUnE0finvKJd67=NzepNd6zJzdrLE0vE1PPpgink8fE-e9ipg@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAEUnE0finvKJd67=NzepNd6zJzdrLE0vE1PPpgink8fE-e9ipg@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2024 15:22:36 -0400
Message-ID: <CAEUnE0d24Zm0vjGuYTzT=2amkThU8s7J7M_Ex_3YMxywJXiifA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Fwd: [PHP-DEV] [Initial Feedback] PHP User Modules - An Adaptation of
 ES6 from JavaScript
To: PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000075ef40061be40e9b"
From: tendoaki@gmail.com (Michael Morris)

--00000000000075ef40061be40e9b
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Thu, Jun 27, 2024 at 2:29=E2=80=AFPM Jordan LeDoux <jordan.ledoux@gmail.=
com>
wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Jun 27, 2024 at 11:13=E2=80=AFAM Deleu <deleugyn@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>
>> Who would build it is an extremely key aspect of making changes to PHP.
>> Ideas are hard enough to survive the RFC process when there's already an
>> implementation. Finding a sponsor to work on this would be the first ste=
p.
>>
>>  ...
>>
> I like the idea but I'm a bit skeptical until we have some buy-in from
>> someone that could actually get this implemented.
>>
>> --
>> Marco Deleu
>>
>
> Perhaps, though a conversation like this is helpful. Some rather
> complicated RFCs do get approved/voted on before an implementation is don=
e
> when contributors who are familiar with the Zend engine get on board earl=
y.
> Conversely, there are some extremely thoroughly implemented complicated
> RFCs that get rejected because most voters don't participate in discussio=
n
> until voting is actually started. Something as broad as this probably
> requires an off-list discussion with key active contributors, because
> participation on list is so hit-and-miss.
>
> Jordan
>

Agreed. I've seen both of those occur so I want to avoid both. Even if
large sections of the discussion are eventually done off list to avoid
getting lost in bike-shed issues, the members of the list, or at least the
voting members of the list should be kept updated periodically to prevent
the project from going down an unpopular path.

The only thing I'm truly sure about with this is that it will be profoundly
difficult to do. But it needs to be addressed because PHP is starting to
lag behind in this area.

--00000000000075ef40061be40e9b
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"lt=
r">On Thu, Jun 27, 2024 at 2:29=E2=80=AFPM Jordan LeDoux &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:jordan.ledoux@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jordan.ledoux@gmail.com</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,2=
04);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Jun 27,=
 2024 at 11:13=E2=80=AFAM Deleu &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:deleugyn@gmail.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank">deleugyn@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te"><div>Who would build it is an extremely key aspect of making changes to=
 PHP. Ideas are hard enough to survive the RFC process when there&#39;s alr=
eady an implementation. Finding a sponsor to work on this would be the firs=
t step.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0...</div></div></div></blockquote>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote"><div></div><div>I like the idea but I&#39;m a bit skepti=
cal until we have some buy-in from someone that could actually get this imp=
lemented.</div></div><div><br></div><span class=3D"gmail_signature_prefix">=
-- </span><br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Marco Deleu</div></div></div></div></div></div></=
div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Perhaps, though a conversa=
tion like this is helpful. Some rather complicated RFCs do get approved/vot=
ed on before an implementation is done when contributors who are familiar w=
ith the Zend engine get on board early. Conversely, there are some extremel=
y thoroughly implemented complicated RFCs that get rejected because most vo=
ters don&#39;t participate in discussion until voting is actually started. =
Something as broad as this probably requires an off-list discussion with ke=
y active contributors, because participation on list is so hit-and-miss.</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>Jordan<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></=
div><div>Agreed. I&#39;ve seen both of those occur so I want to avoid both.=
 Even if large sections of the discussion are eventually done off list to a=
void getting lost in bike-shed issues, the members of the list, or at least=
 the voting members of the list should be kept updated periodically to prev=
ent the project from going down an unpopular path.</div><div><br></div><div=
>The only thing I&#39;m truly sure about with this is that it will be profo=
undly difficult to do. But it needs to be addressed because PHP is starting=
 to lag behind in this area.=C2=A0</div></div></div>
</div></div>

--00000000000075ef40061be40e9b--