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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2024 12:47:11 +0200
To: "Marco Pivetta" <ocramius@gmail.com>,
 "Arnaud Le Blanc" <arnaud.lb@gmail.com>
Cc: "Levi Morrison" <levi.morrison@datadoghq.com>,
 "Nicolas Grekas" <nicolas.grekas+php@gmail.com>,
 "PHP Internals List" <internals@lists.php.net>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Lazy Objects
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From: rob@bottled.codes ("Rob Landers")

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On Thu, Jun 27, 2024, at 12:32, Marco Pivetta wrote:
> Hey Arnaud,
>=20
> On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 at 21:06, Arnaud Le Blanc <arnaud.lb@gmail.com> wr=
ote:
>> The proposed implementation is adding very little complexity as it's =
not adding any special case outside of object handlers (except in json_e=
ncode() and serialize() because these functions trade abstractions for s=
peed). Furthermore all operations that may trigger an object initializat=
ion are already effectful, due to magic methods or hooks (so we are not =
making pure operations effectful). This means that we do not have to wor=
ry about lazy objects or to be aware of them anywhere in the code base, =
outside of object handlers.
>>=20
>> To give you an idea, it's implemented by hooking into the code path t=
hat handles accesses to undefined properties. This code path may call __=
get or __set methods if any, or trigger errors, and with this proposal, =
may trigger the initialization. Userland implementations achieve this fu=
nctionality in a very similar way (with unset() and a generated sub-clas=
s with magic methods), but they have considerably more edge cases to han=
dle due to being at a different abstraction level.
>=20
> Assuming this won't pass a vote (I hope it does, but I want to be opti=
mistic): is this something that could be implemented in an extension, or=
 is it only feasible in core?
>=20
> Greets,
>=20
> Marco Pivetta=20
>=20
> https://mastodon.social/@ocramius
>=20
> https://ocramius.github.io/
> =20

I really hope it passes, not just for your libraries but also for mine. =
I'm looking forward to going on a deletion spree and having a nice stand=
ardized proxy API.

=E2=80=94 Rob
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<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style type=3D"text/css">p.Mso=
Normal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div>On Thu, Jun 27,=
 2024, at 12:32, Marco Pivetta wrote:<br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"=
 id=3D"qt" style=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hey Arnaud,<br><=
/div><div><br></div><div class=3D"qt-gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"qt-gmail_attr">On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 at 21:06, Arnaud Le Blanc &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:arnaud.lb@gmail.com">arnaud.lb@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<b=
r></div><blockquote class=3D"qt-gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top:0px;mar=
gin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;=
border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-lef=
t:1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"qt-gmail_quote"><div><div>The pro=
posed implementation is=20
adding very little complexity as it's not adding any special case=20
outside of object handlers (except in json_encode() and serialize()=20
because these functions trade abstractions for speed). Furthermore all=20
operations that may trigger an object initialization are already=20
effectful, due to magic methods or hooks (so we are not making pure=20
operations effectful). This means that we do not have to worry about=20
lazy objects or to be aware of them anywhere in the code base, outside=20
of object handlers.<br></div><div><br></div><div>To give you an idea,=20
it's implemented by hooking into the code path that handles accesses to=20
undefined properties. This code path may call __get or __set methods if=20
any, or trigger errors, and with this proposal, may trigger the=20
initialization. Userland implementations achieve this functionality in a
 very similar way (with unset() and a generated sub-class with magic=20
methods), but they have considerably more edge cases to handle due to=20
being at a different abstraction level.<br></div></div></div></div></blo=
ckquote><div><br></div><div>Assuming this won't pass a vote (I hope it d=
oes, but I want to be optimistic): is this something that could be imple=
mented in an extension, or is it only feasible in core?<br></div><div><b=
r></div><div>Greets,<br></div><div><br></div><div><div><div><div dir=3D"=
ltr" class=3D"qt-gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Marco Pivetta <b=
r></div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://mastodon.social/@ocramius=
" target=3D"_blank">https://mastodon.social/@ocramius</a><br></div><div>=
<br></div><div><a href=3D"https://ocramius.github.io/" target=3D"_blank"=
>https://ocramius.github.io/</a><br></div></div></div></div></div><div>&=
nbsp;<br></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I real=
ly hope it passes, not just for your libraries but also for mine. I'm lo=
oking forward to going on a deletion spree and having a nice standardize=
d proxy API.</div><div><br></div><div id=3D"sig121229152">=E2=80=94 Rob<=
br></div></body></html>
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