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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2024 12:08:50 +0200
To: internals@lists.php.net
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [Initial Feedback] PHP User Modules - An Adaptation of ES6 from
 JavaScript
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From: rob@bottled.codes ("Rob Landers")

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On Thu, Jun 27, 2024, at 09:41, Rob Landers wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 27, 2024, at 04:15, Michael Morris wrote:
>> Hello all. This is a ramble of an idea that's managed to run around m=
y head for a few days now. It isn't fully formed, but I've ran the thoug=
ht experiment as far as I can on my own and want to share it with all of=
 you.
>>=20
>> I've mostly been a lurker and I've seen a lot of RFC's come and go. O=
f those not accepted many have been passed over because of background co=
mpatibility. And then there is the issue that PHP has multiple design fl=
aws that seem impossible to get rid of. Finally, I sense from conversati=
ons I've read that there are a lot of engine parser optimizations that h=
aven't been tried because of the background compatibility problems prese=
nt.
>>=20
>> JavaScript was in this position as well 10 years ago when JavaScript =
modules were introduced with the ES6 syntax. Only recently have these mo=
dules finally begun to become first class members of node.js.  The exist=
ing CommonJS require mechanism remains and will remain in Node for the f=
oreseeable future, but the ES6 syntax allows an opportunity to sidestep =
the issue. The most significant of these is JavaScript modules run in st=
rict mode, which actually removes features that are problematic for the =
engine or make it difficult to create optimized code.
>>=20
>> Something similar could be done in PHP, and that's what the remainder=
 of this letter is about, but before I continue I want to make clear my =
vantage point: I am but a humble user of the code, I'm no expert on the =
underpinnings of the Zend engine. In the text to follow I'm going to mak=
e wrong calls on some things - maybe multiple things. I'm not married to=
 anything here.  Further, even if I were a master of the engine and knew=
 where to start, the scope of this is too large for any one person to un=
dertake.
>>=20
>> So all that said, I'll begin.
>>=20
>> PHP User Modules are php files that are brought into the runtime thro=
ugh a new parser that is able to generate faster and more concise runtim=
e code by removing support for problematic features and imposing a stric=
t mode by default. They focus on PHP as a language and not as a template=
 engine.
>=20
> FYI, in non-strict mode, this produces a deprecation warning that can =
be caught and thrown from:
>=20
> (fn(int $x) =3D> print($x))(123.456); // deprecation warning
>=20
> but this will work
>=20
> (fn(int $x) =3D> print($x))(123.000); // this is fine
>=20
> Both of those are errors in strict types, so you might be tempted to do
>=20
> fn(int $x) =3D> print($x))((int)$some_var);
>=20
> but $some_var might not actually be an integer-like (such as null or a=
 string that becomes zero).
>=20
> Some of us prefer the more strict, non-strict mode as the built-in str=
ict mode is actually ... uhh, problematic, to say the least, in some bus=
iness cases. So forcing strict mode is probably a non-starter.

If you want to see what I mean:

non-strict: https://3v4l.org/kZ09l
strict: https://3v4l.org/5kVSG

=E2=80=94 Rob
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<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style type=3D"text/css">
p.MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div>On Thu, Ju=
n 27, 2024, at 09:41, Rob Landers wrote:<br></div><blockquote type=3D"ci=
te" id=3D"qt" style=3D""><div>On Thu, Jun 27, 2024, at 04:15, Michael Mo=
rris wrote:<br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" id=3D"qt-qt" style=3D""><=
div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hello all. This is a ramble of an idea that's manag=
ed to run around my head for a few days now. It isn't fully formed, but =
I've ran the thought experiment as far as I can on my own and want to sh=
are it with all of you.<br></div><div><br></div><div>I've mostly been a =
lurker and I've seen a lot of RFC's come and go. Of those not accepted m=
any have been passed over because of background compatibility. And then =
there is the issue that PHP has multiple design flaws that seem impossib=
le to get rid of. Finally, I sense from conversations I've read that the=
re are a lot of engine parser optimizations that haven't been tried beca=
use of the background compatibility problems present.<br></div><div><br>=
</div><div>JavaScript was in this position as well 10 years ago when Jav=
aScript modules were introduced with the ES6 syntax. Only recently have =
these modules finally begun to become first class members of node.js.&nb=
sp; The existing CommonJS require mechanism remains and will remain in N=
ode for the foreseeable future, but the ES6 syntax allows an opportunity=
 to sidestep the issue. The most significant&nbsp;of these is JavaScript=
 modules run in strict mode, which actually removes features that are pr=
oblematic for the engine or make it difficult to create optimized code.<=
br></div><div><br></div><div>Something similar could be done in PHP, and=
 that's what the remainder of this letter is about, but before I continu=
e I want to make clear my vantage point: I am but a humble user of the c=
ode, I'm no expert on the underpinnings of the Zend engine. In the text =
to follow I'm going to make wrong calls on some things - maybe multiple =
things. I'm not married to anything here.&nbsp; Further, even if I were =
a master of the engine and knew where to start, the scope of this is too=
 large for any one person to undertake.<br></div><div><br></div><div>So =
all that said, I'll begin.<br></div><div><br></div><div>PHP User Modules=
 are php files that are brought into the runtime through a new parser th=
at is able to generate faster and more concise runtime code by removing =
support for problematic features and imposing a strict mode by default. =
They focus on PHP as a language and not as a template engine.<br></div><=
/div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>FYI, in non-strict mode, this prod=
uces a deprecation warning that can be caught and thrown from:<br></div>=
<div><br></div><div>(fn(int $x) =3D&gt; print($x))(123.456); // deprecat=
ion warning<br></div><div><br></div><div>but this will work<br></div><di=
v><br></div><div>(fn(int $x) =3D&gt; print($x))(123.000); // this is fin=
e<br></div><div><br></div><div>Both of those are errors in strict types,=
 so you might be tempted to do<br></div><div><br></div><div>fn(int $x) =3D=
&gt; print($x))((int)$some_var);<br></div><div><br></div><div>but $some_=
var might not actually be an integer-like (such as null or a string that=
 becomes zero).<br></div><div><br></div><div>Some of us prefer the more =
strict, non-strict mode as the built-in strict mode is actually ... uhh,=
 problematic, to say the least, in some business cases. So forcing stric=
t mode is probably a non-starter.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><=
div>If you want to see what I mean:<br></div><div><br></div><div>non-str=
ict:&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://3v4l.org/kZ09l">https://3v4l.org/kZ09l</a><=
br></div><div>strict:&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://3v4l.org/5kVSG">https://3v=
4l.org/5kVSG</a><br></div><div><br></div><div id=3D"sig121229152">=E2=80=
=94 Rob<br></div></body></html>
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