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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2024 21:04:58 +0200
Message-ID: <CAP1Jc10=qZQyg9Qi9WWo1pAbmnMJZL-=-dpWJ_XDyJEYQoecvA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Lazy Objects
To: Levi Morrison <levi.morrison@datadoghq.com>
Cc: Nicolas Grekas <nicolas.grekas+php@gmail.com>, 
	PHP Internals List <internals@lists.php.net>
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From: arnaud.lb@gmail.com (Arnaud Le Blanc)

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Hi Levi,

On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 12:07=E2=80=AFAM Levi Morrison <levi.morrison@datad=
oghq.com>
wrote:

> I will vote no on this one. I do not believe the internal complexity
> and maintenance is worth the feature. Additionally, I do not feel like
> changing the language to support this feature is a good idea; if this
> were a library only thing, I would not care.
>

Hi Levi,

The proposed implementation is adding very little complexity as it's not
adding any special case outside of object handlers (except in json_encode()
and serialize() because these functions trade abstractions for speed).
Furthermore all operations that may trigger an object initialization are
already effectful, due to magic methods or hooks (so we are not making pure
operations effectful). This means that we do not have to worry about lazy
objects or to be aware of them anywhere in the code base, outside of object
handlers.

To give you an idea, it's implemented by hooking into the code path that
handles accesses to undefined properties. This code path may call __get or
__set methods if any, or trigger errors, and with this proposal, may
trigger the initialization. Userland implementations achieve this
functionality in a very similar way (with unset() and a generated sub-class
with magic methods), but they have considerably more edge cases to handle
due to being at a different abstraction level.

Best Regards,
Arnaud

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi Levi,<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 12:07=E2=80=AFAM Levi Morrison &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:levi.morrison@datadoghq.com" target=3D"_blank">levi.morrison@dat=
adoghq.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
I will vote no on this one. I do not believe the internal complexity<br>
and maintenance is worth the feature. Additionally, I do not feel like<br>
changing the language to support this feature is a good idea; if this<br>
were a library only thing, I would not care.<br></blockquote><div><br></div=
><div><div>Hi Levi,</div><div><br></div><div>The proposed implementation is=
=20
adding very little complexity as it&#39;s not adding any special case=20
outside of object handlers (except in json_encode() and serialize()=20
because these functions trade abstractions for speed). Furthermore all=20
operations that may trigger an object initialization are already=20
effectful, due to magic methods or hooks (so we are not making pure=20
operations effectful). This means that we do not have to worry about=20
lazy objects or to be aware of them anywhere in the code base, outside=20
of object handlers.<br></div><div><br></div><div>To give you an idea,=20
it&#39;s implemented by hooking into the code path that handles accesses to=
=20
undefined properties. This code path may call __get or __set methods if=20
any, or trigger errors, and with this proposal, may trigger the=20
initialization. Userland implementations achieve this functionality in a
 very similar way (with unset() and a generated sub-class with magic=20
methods), but they have considerably more edge cases to handle due to=20
being at a different abstraction level.</div><div><br></div><div>Best Regar=
ds,</div><div>Arnaud</div></div><div>=C2=A0</div></div>
</div>

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