Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:123682 X-Original-To: internals@lists.php.net Delivered-To: internals@lists.php.net Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (php-smtp4.php.net [45.112.84.5]) by qa.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CC7E51A009C for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2024 16:14:34 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=php.net; s=mail; t=1718813747; bh=1Y0trtW2LKND/suOgy2QoqwPPddBmTynyhkUPEJPHcE=; h=References:In-Reply-To:From:Date:Subject:To:Cc:From; b=OHsqcjZwjfsLz5zMIfEcUUR6rhO1/auFQkXkguelg7Y+HZcwumaANcjFDTUOrOQ1X XzXCzxVDagOiVjw2yg0+Co0+BDpLQKUTEwev01d3SBIj8nqG5lRPoVEjpE8P3/D7ES Ziw/nShhHN1FHfeyhgnekV9Kx4JswHsGjQJHKv1MVbhGskdAJM9/5fAzPVlmqX21Qu nkkvQU2T7kkoG8ui+DS7C22782WZs/tbigDDFEE9iMbKIHzkijCTFBz8FxjDrxMfPx pkjnROWtTU08Q0v5sCHpkdQ60OxJf1R6rOP+82H2KsVP8KsATNiUx3trZWRbBTvgeu N4/6zjzrSFLdg== Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06D4B180A02 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2024 16:15:47 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0 (2022-12-13) on php-smtp4.php.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,DMARC_PASS,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=4.0.0 X-Spam-Virus: Error (Cannot connect to unix socket '/var/run/clamav/clamd.ctl': connect: Connection refused) X-Envelope-From: Received: from mail-lf1-f50.google.com (mail-lf1-f50.google.com [209.85.167.50]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2024 16:15:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lf1-f50.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-5295e488248so7331037e87.2 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2024 09:14:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1718813672; x=1719418472; darn=lists.php.net; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=FzdWLZU/WzgkK8bcaaYPysKRPW53QCY8jaA7Eu1IltA=; b=KGmns0PUQSsPqscGplyXonIDeslXl1gqaREIW6FbsrGkFt8G90PdZuV0XLZL/b9AnJ jp32m3rmvCPMzHh3+0O3rvrjGNvD9AK8vFTZVz/JT7uE8Dgm6TfAft5G0lRyTSe20rcJ QSzuYfQkpl6yS3BXCPx0IotX+/WnbSLvI8zkzRachdNjLuWbtxG8KJJTFDxPn15PBQV5 wOklYmK6A97Q8Pfb3itxyMgN8wiIFURdzjix8X2cI2aVpiumIs4y5Di2Ja8mrCKl/GlH mVS6hLaVHnq410X944OraLunphl4Yo5vo7ixtBrm60gyn10RlRSCmjg5erHS9c9RpLn3 uqTw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1718813672; x=1719418472; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=FzdWLZU/WzgkK8bcaaYPysKRPW53QCY8jaA7Eu1IltA=; b=hTza+nTT3Biuhi0Nhxx+HI8FIm/r/oW/EZiYvMZjWYSusyoe3BYIbEUdk6uFpz6gRv 3iF5zMITA8B5WdDtRga4Nu8Ok3DTwrs88C5I2+liGmCZ3X1PRnOl6FiSkw55pjFL2Bx8 N4c3hhBXaCqC1sKpb3hRI2Olwp9QOzG56twprx92L458AUrLNcUrr4cIkeA8tzLA63W0 VGx2soWTDAkDG5eK+qFDgUqN0w6nPsZDERmaYj7zCtZZoo4M4DTPkNByzf3ETWsK5Fi9 DmB9qvS1hpkYs5DybUpD44q/ovU7NuVVGjJTkT5UV5xM8kCntEIJuJNffMV8dReltRVK K8lA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Ywh1tqRgUKXoUkTanZiVa41pw/eL1//qXelEemGXWevEFBkRK3W uxNUiUoWdxuaxCGYHO9XVxduKtwrmHB1YfDLncPQ6JFzdO583M1Ue4+gfnzN54bnLWnw0tiUKBG fmey11kuRWaC2fYUeZyK0RjY0+eRjSsZMNsM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHTm0ZiHnpsaHTg5mhLqLYwQvmtrw7c+ZG+TWQ+0HwGsW5e4MQeHY3o7jRrnox6/3UejV+mWn9f7qVllAmLKjI= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:3613:b0:52c:a49e:a469 with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-52ccaa5c73dmr1660343e87.58.1718813671525; Wed, 19 Jun 2024 09:14:31 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk list-help: list-post: List-Id: internals.lists.php.net MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9d28c9tOCChpWUcP1SFiFwtf2-w2XAtDzHsmM73myA7zfBsn7TxxEqs-VCnxRAgZjsk2TxS55owmM8wSLgBQL8LgeQLntUQ9toeLMkjTVx4=@gpb.moe> <673a1803-83c4-44b4-bd73-4ba61e83412e@app.fastmail.com> <752ae750-efff-4a54-8806-a361dc3ecc15@php.net> In-Reply-To: <752ae750-efff-4a54-8806-a361dc3ecc15@php.net> Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2024 18:14:20 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Renaming "strict types" to "scalar type coercion" To: Sebastian Bergmann Cc: internals@lists.php.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: landers.robert@gmail.com (Robert Landers) On Wed, Jun 19, 2024 at 5:43=E2=80=AFPM Sebastian Bergmann wrote: > > Am 19.06.2024 um 17:34 schrieb Larry Garfield: > > Also, as someone who does put every file into strict mode as a matter o= f course, and appreciates the many languages that do not even have a concep= t of non-strict mode (like Go or Rust), I really don't appreciate the backh= anded comments in this thread about people who, you know, care about type s= afety. (Something that weak mode, when it was introduced in PHP 7, only ma= rginally provided if at all.) Strict mode prevents bugs, full stop, and we= should not fault anyone for applying that bug-stopper tool liberally. > > What Larry and Gina said. Strange, I don't have an email from Larry! But I suspect it will show up eventually... I look forward to it! I'll go ahead and risk an out-of-context reply, but FWIW, it goes both ways :) People get irrational about this topic, either for-or-against. In any case, there is not any "type safety" in PHP because PHP doesn't know something is the wrong type until runtime. Further, it clearly doesn't stop bugs, otherwise we'd all be out of a job by now. Robert Landers Software Engineer Utrecht NL