Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:12360
Return-Path: <shiznatz@gmail.com>
Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm
Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net
Received: (qmail 88652 invoked by uid 1010); 26 Aug 2004 04:58:00 -0000
Delivered-To: ezmlm-scan-internals@lists.php.net
Delivered-To: ezmlm-internals@lists.php.net
Received: (qmail 83222 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2004 04:55:41 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO mproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.170.203)
  by pb1.pair.com with SMTP; 26 Aug 2004 04:55:41 -0000
Received: by mproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 80so165759rnk
        for <internals@lists.php.net>; Wed, 25 Aug 2004 21:55:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.38.8.46 with SMTP id 46mr2478012rnh;
        Wed, 25 Aug 2004 21:55:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.38.206.10 with HTTP; Wed, 25 Aug 2004 21:55:40 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1944df00408252155335f63a@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:55:40 +1000
Reply-To: Robert Amos <shiznatz@gmail.com>
To: internals@lists.php.net
In-Reply-To: <7730d1c90408252127269d0f43@mail.gmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <C043E4034185BB40B01C76980AC639C066F1D0@cacexc04.americas.cpqcorp.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0408251736140.1308@t42p> <7730d1c90408252127269d0f43@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [PHP-DEV] Unfulfilled promises... forever experimental extensions... all over again
From: shiznatz@gmail.com (Robert Amos)

Actually, I can't imagine that either side was "shouting".

Imagine though, if you will, that PHP is the UN.

You're all delegates or whatever, sitting in a circle around the room
and someone steps in to address you. They criticise existing
practices, and suggest that others need to put more effort into their
volunteer work.

Now how would you react to that?

If instead, you stepped in there with a nice long list of specific
improvements that can be made, and offered to help make those
improvements whereever you can, then you would get a startingly
different reception, wouldnt you agree?

This is not to say that Roshan isnt correct in his assessment, there
probably are a few practices here and there that we could improve
upon. But saying "work harder, fix it yourself" isnt going to help at
all now is it?

As the sayings go, changes arent made unless you're willing to die for
what you believe in. Nothing so drastic here, but if you want
something done, put in the effort to get it done!

Personally, if I'd been a PHP developer, I'd have been rather offended
by someone coming in and calling me lazy for not volunteering more of
my time than I can give.

-bok

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 22:27:18 -0600, Daniel C. <dcrookston@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here we have a polite, if provocative, email, and two very nasty and
> rude responses to it.  Followed by a polite response from Roshan.  If
> you walk into a room and see an argument where one side is yelling and
> being rude, and one person is responding calmly and politely, who
> would you automatically (given no other information) assume is right?
> 
> Just a thought from an outside observer.
> Dan
> 
> > On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, Naik, Roshan wrote:
> <snip Roshan's thoughtful and polite email>
> 
> On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 17:42:11 -0700 (PDT), Rasmus Lerdorf <rasmus@php.net> wrote:
> 
> > Wow, that was quite a rant from someone who hasn't contributed a damn
> > thing.
> > Ranting at a bunch of volunteers is utterly useless and counterproductive.
> > If you do that, your words might mean something.
> 
> On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 18:06:32 -0700, Andi Gutmans <andi@zend.com> wrote:
> > Thanks for this quite useless and unproductive email.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
> 
>