Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:123579
Feedback-ID: ifab94697:Fastmail
User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.11.0-alpha0-515-g87b2bad5a-fm-20240604.001-g87b2bad5
Precedence: bulk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <14f6e0a1-d01b-4dcd-a7d4-f8806ee1db19@app.fastmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <4d4df16b-af35-4245-85f4-016d66e8a4fa@app.fastmail.com>
References: <0a6a61cd-f203-4dea-a7f8-97e6b885c52d@app.fastmail.com>
 <CAHSBg45uKCO9R9nrF6c7D1oZsEEwUxkkiRtMoA4fk0ECY--ekw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CP8P284MB21480B5455D962823CF634C593C62@CP8P284MB2148.BRAP284.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <43606ecd-8838-476d-8fdf-acc6dbe26359@app.fastmail.com>
 <4d4df16b-af35-4245-85f4-016d66e8a4fa@app.fastmail.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2024 15:48:44 +0200
To: internals@lists.php.net
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Asymmetric Visibility, v2
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary=dfa5c72b72b7416b8769b8043321398b
From: rob@bottled.codes ("Rob Landers")

--dfa5c72b72b7416b8769b8043321398b
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Tue, Jun 11, 2024, at 15:36, Larry Garfield wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2024, at 6:47 AM, Rob Landers wrote:
>=20
> > I=E2=80=99m also not a fan of the prefix style, but for different re=
asons. My=20
> > main reason is that it increases the minimum line-length, potentiall=
y=20
> > forcing you to chop things down into awkward looking lines:
> >
> > public
> > private(set)
> > string $longvarname {
> >  get;
> >  set;
> > }
> >
> > I find that extremely hard to scan, but maybe others do not. The mor=
e=20
> > natural looking syntax is easier to scan and reason about (IMHO):
> >
> > public
> > string $longvarname {
> >  get;
> >  private set;
> > }
> >
> > If I=E2=80=99m having to read the code, I prefer to have everything =
near where=20
> > it is used so I don=E2=80=99t have to scroll up to the top and see i=
ts=20
> > visibility. Granted, I haven=E2=80=99t used property hooks and I hav=
e no idea=20
> > how IDEs will help here; maybe it is a non-issue =E2=80=94 but I gue=
ss people=20
> > still have to do code reviews which very rarely comes with IDE power=
s.
> >
> > =E2=80=94 Rob
>=20
> I have never in my life seen someone split the visibility to a separat=
e line from the type and variable name in PHP.  I don't know why anyone =
would start now, especially not because of hooks or aviz.  I just checke=
d and PER-CS very directly states "All keywords MUST be on a single line=
, and MUST be separated by a single space."  So splitting it like shown =
above would be against standard coding conventions anyway.
>=20
> This is really a strawman argument.
>=20
> --Larry Garfield
>=20

I=E2=80=99m willing to concede that it might be a straw man, though I di=
d not intend it as such. I was being serious in my pointing out of it in=
creasing the minimum line length and PER isn=E2=80=99t the only coding s=
tandard. It may result in some ugly code, as in my example.

=E2=80=94 Rob
--dfa5c72b72b7416b8769b8043321398b
Content-Type: text/html;charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style type=3D"text/css">p.Mso=
Normal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div>On Tue, Jun 11,=
 2024, at 15:36, Larry Garfield wrote:<br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite=
" id=3D"qt" style=3D""><div>On Tue, Jun 11, 2024, at 6:47 AM, Rob Lander=
s wrote:<br></div><div><br></div><div>&gt; I=E2=80=99m also not a fan of=
 the prefix style, but for different reasons. My&nbsp;<br></div><div>&gt=
; main reason is that it increases the minimum line-length, potentially&=
nbsp;<br></div><div>&gt; forcing you to chop things down into awkward lo=
oking lines:<br></div><div>&gt;<br></div><div>&gt; public<br></div><div>=
&gt; private(set)<br></div><div>&gt; string $longvarname {<br></div><div=
>&gt;&nbsp; get;<br></div><div>&gt;&nbsp; set;<br></div><div>&gt; }<br><=
/div><div>&gt;<br></div><div>&gt; I find that extremely hard to scan, bu=
t maybe others do not. The more&nbsp;<br></div><div>&gt; natural looking=
 syntax is easier to scan and reason about (IMHO):<br></div><div>&gt;<br=
></div><div>&gt; public<br></div><div>&gt; string $longvarname {<br></di=
v><div>&gt;&nbsp; get;<br></div><div>&gt;&nbsp; private set;<br></div><d=
iv>&gt; }<br></div><div>&gt;<br></div><div>&gt; If I=E2=80=99m having to=
 read the code, I prefer to have everything near where&nbsp;<br></div><d=
iv>&gt; it is used so I don=E2=80=99t have to scroll up to the top and s=
ee its&nbsp;<br></div><div>&gt; visibility. Granted, I haven=E2=80=99t u=
sed property hooks and I have no idea&nbsp;<br></div><div>&gt; how IDEs =
will help here; maybe it is a non-issue =E2=80=94 but I guess people&nbs=
p;<br></div><div>&gt; still have to do code reviews which very rarely co=
mes with IDE powers.<br></div><div>&gt;<br></div><div>&gt; =E2=80=94 Rob=
<br></div><div><br></div><div>I have never in my life seen someone split=
 the visibility to a separate line from the type and variable name in PH=
P.&nbsp; I don't know why anyone would start now, especially not because=
 of hooks or aviz.&nbsp; I just checked and PER-CS very directly states =
"All keywords MUST be on a single line, and MUST be separated by a singl=
e space."&nbsp; So splitting it like shown above would be against standa=
rd coding conventions anyway.<br></div><div><br></div><div>This is reall=
y a strawman argument.<br></div><div><br></div><div>--Larry Garfield<br>=
</div><div><br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I=E2=80=99m willin=
g to concede that it might be a straw man, though I did not intend it as=
 such. I was being serious in my pointing out of it increasing the minim=
um line length and PER isn=E2=80=99t the only coding standard. It may re=
sult in some ugly code, as in my example.</div><div><br></div><div id=3D=
"sig121229152">=E2=80=94 Rob<br></div></body></html>
--dfa5c72b72b7416b8769b8043321398b--