Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:123093
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="------------i2JgQfuYaqAqTIXUn9PL8bft"
Message-ID: <9e9ae75b-454a-43b8-80ac-580948db4fbb@php.net>
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2024 08:36:51 -0700
Precedence: bulk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][Vote announcement] Property hooks
To: internals@lists.php.net
References: <CAPyj-LBMQEJ=2BF=xk_on4O2xTU+MM2XRAZ5g=uPwVOf=bh+sw@mail.gmail.com>
 <66154AA0.1040905@adviesenzo.nl> <66160A1D.4060409@adviesenzo.nl>
 <cd0da1e3-1906-462f-9677-7df19987b6ec@beccati.com>
 <CAGS0MVB0KQLgs7hD4=9ks7txF2vW_jb=pY1whKKHMs+pWdOyZg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABigaAWwftpRBYZtkcWbqZJYBZA-f58niwmdco0KYtrKx+eHug@mail.gmail.com>
 <80444808-8107-4b15-b12b-58c8f321c3e4@scriptfusion.com>
Content-Language: en-US
Autocrypt: addr=ericmann@php.net; keydata=
 xsFNBFg4q4YBEAD50HOLDAVpW88rUHnX/TYTCLpqmHMKXPjuf1l3ZEkY3PXF6wqmqaWWMPeW
 JFsik3cMebtLQzsgXHl4xDUBQhOOtdfax2ZKBHQmoUknw2dKkqdkVLh8Xpu8tw00SmcTiAFV
 CA2+HOqQ+Drq9NUpnMeJpJZiZu84eZbJBEzgabi0s4jf67NH7E3ENFb8DRilcM1aNT0rD1xV
 KR1spMKmBmOoJ/pj5OlWNH34/qdeqIrvKB46/pFELH8SRiorYTDhQTaS0PlT3LxRqVWo8+Jl
 gnFIe96p2d7JF1A1DwQUJerRY4789gNYzjW4fh1tc6jtTE2opbLVfbqujHsxrHFKoBO4CPBc
 Ptzf6TUPxDevvBh9omsd+V5FW7k/VFIiWFQv0RfQe8nwkNjmA0U3TOX3xKrU+59RU6w+uOuQ
 y564jxg691a7peiQ2Y90FqIVUlEL9Guf8U9ezp1DGo/UhnRNJcPmSwhYRcKMUV53mDqWQW8p
 7XXjSqnVVF3cP9bc94UNAf28kXvnJBMGOZwp19dqD7ws+25WM6qQ7u7qQoGZzSI4Wn0ZaXnF
 rXwQXfY4+R20XSDt3oxGP8h08VSz09Xd3C7XV8Eg+0RrTSXVtZruAdcOIE/AWK4aBpN7yfGl
 MTfOOoYZa5tPFYf906yE56vtHcfJttJ7CO+kQMIW5PgRVMAE/QARAQABzRxFcmljIE1hbm4g
 PGVyaWNtYW5uQHBocC5uZXQ+wsGOBBMBCgA4FiEEr9hpH9rt8DvfbkYFY/Fam3FTdsoFAmRj
 nNgCGwMFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQY/Fam3FTdsqv3BAAhDY7/d3oxt3Y
 zD5HGdJhqL0Ij6pqBMpW/GbF12eKxnnmz0VitT7lzayD7UHzUzTT8ZwSbrOaH2SIUFMl//vg
 L4PW7aUpYgSl00mowvazp1CG2085B8H8N1rXJKgUYuQfdmco8qfha0iI6YWH65CSBNupl5ma
 CBwXk6cX3C2XVJ3AP6rz4bnVJLohc88PQwSX33hWEHYxQh2mJ0Eb40QTB+pS2iU2W2+Mhd33
 ryAGrCIZod76uCkNge+vioshDOlKxDA1j77tJiAO3FJkix1LOM13SQmapeqP7HnGfkNPZSNa
 ZiOcOxM6rPAGk1sBUZSfktnDu4gdW74yC/IcCqyQZVyXV3OVvatkBXHz90yje5zC6YKP3IU/
 CUU4XMdWr9KfYpnfi42JF1KT9G8Iv33HbpMikgJrJtHgUxoKXQ0rzoT3gh4jUK8q4OPaCRBV
 CE3MqVwyc4Joj0/97X4/Hqa78pf874xKNRY5K18NDM+su3WwYfp7kkEpc2YMHDjzUenQZJRK
 HOIJXgwK0pibSM41okMZFE3o9G8DdMUMQRqeCM/cbpivfmnCAVqGk5VFLYcWxQsq0b6nlqTv
 9k+fqH3WtJAS1NDzX1axrJ0tPfKPQlZTvBAZIp6KDfO1MvovnVO21erG33lI2o+0fonX3k6g
 PuQKbXNZG4QcaSTAV9WUp0HOwU0EWDitHQEQAMW49+DpWQNZIhI6JchxlXEhK374TcZqKjpf
 7D9Zdr7zDB2iRD8cKxvMyr566RHpoD/6otd0f267kRVjHTL11TKutSKlwT27+nJcoFRRF1Sh
 BU2gPj9u1tasUsDPuRXlW/BA8yPePWXdxaizTY7kGxwCo7M2QkSGhHh4m+1AuYhsZYdCudaN
 uKSNFD6CtxBwKE4Now3svD3TzZJ2L2IxGOUOUw7mq6WJygYIXeYycVUggEbHpYcL35vmbYNb
 Wqd1Cw0bcjzQ32Yi89u1t9YOtatPgAcMT9LLLgRkD0Fg6YOQuobhsosH2fRy332nuL6QFdk4
 Zf1WlKF1PjiYRg3km+QgOipIjK3RfKiA74RrbvUr+zUWW3fN0qzxrF2ub8MyoECPzRjfo8x5
 8gl45SV1pXBYlFJpdA0aS+T7upVOY6g6fvFB7n4xl/3aK5uXsH2klKa7TwRtLCAVttGV2dkC
 PHZxqTNKc0/UvO2rjGKtEMYgpvzoHwtSM6FiWphcgWGiRS7qHBZYcgL7wV9Lkm2ZNRyhtIko
 UDvkaEZXc3AlIis4cUEJjpGwIeSnViU8Fep9M26zhSwmHYjFD+lburOZAMpCK+wsU214Mlbn
 QZZhJcTyCnORHnvDUZTwM3XYVLdhfqP8a0sfdg6VkGJo0kht30CMHJzp0EyGt8mOPLyC3LIP
 ABEBAAHCwXYEGAEKAAkFAlg4rR0CGwwAIQkQY/Fam3FTdsoWIQSv2Gkf2u3wO99uRgVj8Vqb
 cVN2ylVlD/49gOcib5GxCuYJLYlpYJRKBpptFvfgBsiq2D03w0U7Y+POi+jrHqa2LSeW6DFL
 GEKgL+1xJCFGKFJ/Cm2eCt4fpGitfaOFgLO/gdjjgPFQsuFm3840sKcXSql4w9W9Z+oPg/9d
 uL4xDqevuv3mOQO+R1Bt/4V+9vNk01kX1ftMRyMXhlqjPRUUp+tSQTT5KM5uxD3tLCWxcBxE
 iOjZ94ngiRuFuiNSnZ16GMckEh9Mum1Y+R4wJsRaZeulrmA02aML41IkZTHALRhKyxbDfjVe
 MURHM5gBhPYUVw9joxnXCzC+BRCDFw7bVL853LwgSq2gXZC0Rfdu2aBtLXWliGdmtv9FwKCL
 FrECygxbUu2fGB5/aMQ0otV2rgjaigPfhZoEQY0QasAQ4W+CR8fOGURWosoAKpLbeUGd9/zO
 f253g3XoN13wwTKyjhXKENUPw8ZqvjdPO+tgNnOLUnPO6K10ePbW4vaZdFCdixumxqZPokeB
 PkBPZq8oeAswkgWahKwQ7ZfgU4HTLMte3NEn/2WZQsLUo68IMaTCKt3AHvGoYi86wtd6/3Db
 NMxNsWamr8SWzia/1DGM5F1o3ClrZetD+eZN13duF3gI/1x+++5LhWP+qxPPOzBhXZG5zJ2P
 3+eRwWuS79ZGfoh6w7uF4A3rkjkKfpAIwrNI2WlAKXWdBQ==
In-Reply-To: <80444808-8107-4b15-b12b-58c8f321c3e4@scriptfusion.com>
From: ericmann@php.net

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------i2JgQfuYaqAqTIXUn9PL8bft
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On 4/10/24 07:56, Alex Wells wrote:
> To an outsider, it looks wild when feedback starts coming in right 
> before the vote starts. What's even more startling is that there are 
> people with voting rights who have never participated in the 
> discussion at all, yet have a right to wordlessly affect the vote's 
> outcome. I sincerely hope Ilija and Larry's work don't go to waste here.
-- 
Clearly those of us who agreed with the approach and wanted the RFC and 
planned to vote to approve things should've been more vocal about that. 
Don't take silence to be apathy - email is often the worst medium for a 
deep discussion and "ditto" doesn't add to the discourse.

I for one will try to be more vocal since apparently what I thought was 
noise is apparently necessary signal here.

Is the feature complex? Yes. Is it overly complex? No. As a developer 
who has hand-rolled custom getter/setter behavior for years this will 
save a mountain of time (and would've removed nearly half of the code I 
once had to write for a very complicated WordPress feature). I love the 
approach and wholeheartedly support the direction here. The similarity 
to C# and Kotlin structures should lower the cognitive burden here as well.
--------------i2JgQfuYaqAqTIXUn9PL8bft
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/10/24 07:56, Alex Wells wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CABigaAWwftpRBYZtkcWbqZJYBZA-f58niwmdco0KYtrKx+eHug@mail.gmail.com">
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div>To an outsider, it looks wild when feedback starts coming
          in right before the vote starts. What's even more startling is
          that there are people with voting rights who have never
          participated in the discussion at all, yet have a right to
          wordlessly affect the vote's outcome. I sincerely hope Ilija
          and Larry's work don't go to waste here.</div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
      Clearly those of us who agreed with the approach and wanted the
      RFC and planned to vote to approve things should've been more
      vocal about that. Don't take silence to be apathy - email is often
      the worst medium for a deep discussion and "ditto" doesn't add to
      the discourse.</div>
    <div class="moz-signature"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-signature">I for one will try to be more vocal since
      apparently what I thought was noise is apparently necessary signal
      here.</div>
    <div class="moz-signature"><br>
    </div>
    Is the feature complex? Yes. Is it overly complex? No. As a
    developer who has hand-rolled custom getter/setter behavior for
    years this will save a mountain of time (and would've removed nearly
    half of the code I once had to write for a very complicated
    WordPress feature). I love the approach and wholeheartedly support
    the direction here. The similarity to C# and Kotlin structures
    should lower the cognitive burden here as well.
  </body>
</html>

--------------i2JgQfuYaqAqTIXUn9PL8bft--