Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:122500
Feedback-ID: ifab94697:Fastmail
User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.11.0-alpha0-153-g7e3bb84806-fm-20240215.007-g7e3bb848
Precedence: bulk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <3b312b96-41e0-42af-b2c6-cc75f27102e8@app.fastmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <17d50791-190d-4f74-9478-030a84ae9545@app.fastmail.com>
References: <112488a9-aaa6-4d85-9056-a4581a3cda21@app.fastmail.com>
 <17d50791-190d-4f74-9478-030a84ae9545@app.fastmail.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2024 17:14:49 +0100
To: "Rowan Tommins [IMSoP]" <imsop.php@rwec.co.uk>, internals@lists.php.net
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] is this thing on?
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary=fc67f9d8d6d347f1a2c6c418c145f446
From: rob@bottled.codes ("Rob Landers")

--fc67f9d8d6d347f1a2c6c418c145f446
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Mon, Feb 26, 2024, at 12:03, Rowan Tommins [IMSoP] wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Feb 2024, at 20:02, Rob Landers wrote:
> > Before I get to the meat of this email, first of all, IMHO, anyone s=
hould be able to email the list, even if they are not a=20
> > member of the list. I've had to email ubuntu lists about bugs before=
 and I really have no desire to join those lists, but
> > I was always able to just send the email to the list just fine.
>=20
> The biggest problem with an open list is how to manage spam - if you d=
on't catch the spam on the list server, it not only ends up in hundreds =
of inboxes, but in multiple archives and mirrors of the list. I don't kn=
ow how the lists you mentioned handle that.

https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntu-devel-discuss

You can send an email and ask :) no subscription required.=20

>=20
> This has also come up in the past regarding moving from e-mail to $cur=
rently_fashionable_technology - having some barrier to entry is actually=
 quite useful, since we want people to put some effort into their contri=
butions beyond "me too" or "I had this crazy idea in the pub".
>=20
> Note that this is exactly why bugs.php.net was abandoned: there was to=
o much spam and low-quality content.
>=20
>=20
> > Now for the issue:
> >=20
> > gmail is failing to send emails to the list (hence why it has probab=
ly been a bit quite around here). Here is the error:
> >=20
> > The response from the remote server was:
> > 451 4.3.0 : Temporary lookup failure
>=20
> People are aware of this issue, and looking into it. In case you misse=
d the previous thread, two things have unfortunately happened at once:
>=20
> - The mailing list was moved to a new server
> - GMail rolled out a much tighter set of anti-spam rules
>=20
> It's not immediately clear which of these is responsible for the 451 e=
rrors, but as I say, people are working on it.

There wasn=E2=80=99t any mention about issues FROM Gmail TO the list. I =
sent this email because it didn=E2=80=99t seem like ANYONE was aware of =
the issue (otherwise someone would have mentioned it, so people would st=
op hammering the server trying to send emails that couldn=E2=80=99t be s=
ent). Even emailing people like Derrick directly was failing to be sent.=20

>=20
> > Now, to go figure out how to unsubscribe this email from the list...
>=20
> Exactly the same way you subscribed, I believe: via the web form, or u=
sing +unsubscribe in the to address.
>=20
> Regards,
> --=20
> Rowan Tommins
> [IMSoP]
>=20

P.S. I have no idea if this email is sent via html or plain text or how =
to switch it. I apologize for the shenanigans if this is html.=20

=E2=80=94 Rob
--fc67f9d8d6d347f1a2c6c418c145f446
Content-Type: text/html;charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style type=3D"text/css">p.Mso=
Normal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div>On Mon, Feb 26,=
 2024, at 12:03, Rowan Tommins [IMSoP] wrote:<br></div><blockquote type=3D=
"cite" id=3D"qt" style=3D""><div>On Sun, 25 Feb 2024, at 20:02, Rob Land=
ers wrote:<br></div><div>&gt; Before I get to the meat of this email, fi=
rst of all, IMHO, anyone should be able to email the list, even if they =
are not a&nbsp;<br></div><div>&gt; member of the list. I've had to email=
 ubuntu lists about bugs before and I really have no desire to join thos=
e lists, but<br></div><div>&gt; I was always able to just send the email=
 to the list just fine.<br></div><div><br></div><div>The biggest problem=
 with an open list is how to manage spam - if you don't catch the spam o=
n the list server, it not only ends up in hundreds of inboxes, but in mu=
ltiple archives and mirrors of the list. I don't know how the lists you =
mentioned handle that.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><a href=
=3D"https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntu-devel-discuss">http=
s://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntu-devel-discuss</a><br></div>=
<div><br></div><div>You can send an email and ask :) no subscription req=
uired.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" id=3D"qt" sty=
le=3D""><div><br></div><div>This has also come up in the past regarding =
moving from e-mail to $currently_fashionable_technology - having some ba=
rrier to entry is actually quite useful, since we want people to put som=
e effort into their contributions beyond "me too" or "I had this crazy i=
dea in the pub".<br></div><div><br></div><div>Note that this is exactly =
why bugs.php.net was abandoned: there was too much spam and low-quality =
content.<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>&gt; Now for the is=
sue:<br></div><div>&gt;&nbsp;<br></div><div>&gt; gmail is failing to sen=
d emails to the list (hence why it has probably been a bit quite around =
here). Here is the error:<br></div><div>&gt;&nbsp;<br></div><div>&gt; Th=
e response from the remote server was:<br></div><div>&gt; 451 4.3.0 : Te=
mporary lookup failure<br></div><div><br></div><div>People are aware of =
this issue, and looking into it. In case you missed the previous thread,=
 two things have unfortunately happened at once:<br></div><div><br></div=
><div>- The mailing list was moved to a new server<br></div><div>- GMail=
 rolled out a much tighter set of anti-spam rules<br></div><div><br></di=
v><div>It's not immediately clear which of these is responsible for the =
451 errors, but as I say, people are working on it.<br></div></blockquot=
e><div><br></div><div>There wasn=E2=80=99t any mention about issues FROM=
 Gmail TO the list. I sent this email because it didn=E2=80=99t seem lik=
e ANYONE was aware of the issue (otherwise someone would have mentioned =
it, so people would stop hammering the server trying to send emails that=
 couldn=E2=80=99t be sent). Even emailing people like Derrick directly w=
as failing to be sent.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cit=
e" id=3D"qt" style=3D""><div><br></div><div>&gt; Now, to go figure out h=
ow to unsubscribe this email from the list...<br></div><div><br></div><d=
iv>Exactly the same way you subscribed, I believe: via the web form, or =
using +unsubscribe in the to address.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Regar=
ds,<br></div><div>--&nbsp;<br></div><div>Rowan Tommins<br></div><div>[IM=
SoP]<br></div><div><br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>P.S. I hav=
e no idea if this email is sent via html or plain text or how to switch =
it. I apologize for the shenanigans if this is html.&nbsp;<br></div><div=
><br></div><div id=3D"sig121229152">=E2=80=94 Rob<br></div></body></html=
>
--fc67f9d8d6d347f1a2c6c418c145f446--