Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:122468 X-Original-To: internals@lists.php.net Delivered-To: internals@lists.php.net Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (php-smtp4.php.net [45.112.84.5]) by qa.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 395121ACEBF for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2024 17:17:11 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=php.net; s=mail; t=1708622236; bh=kKLhjS+m4PWFYwFgFyMkzwDYM65hFdrJGhA/k+txZQM=; h=Date:From:To:CC:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=Yu2oIDuEnx3ou5J9hn3pay4ltH2ZxgzConKHpU3S4zP9w8Vk3E74qD0Y686U7bKtG GJPlcVVvJHHtVPV8yaLthHYH2yHclrMWjtM68+UtC6AeQxBRvGxFPLIls4yWH2PGXy 0TxI0G/YQ5jpF3yBf/cVeu5hQizTjmTKiKh+3bQ/Y+Cr+4f9/opMD7HajOsB5amQVC Wz1wo5V3UKrWkOw6aiVKsGgw6ao7FVy5/x87ebngAugeL0MMUp4p2MDz6PzO4Le5ub DnXXD+bsOOWoUgFr4ybOQ2fuMy9hmjLfBgR+cxQWVH/blmu3M1j1S9O5lnD70cfZY3 jZilAPOdwLhcA== Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8961018037E for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2024 17:17:15 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0 (2022-12-13) on php-smtp4.php.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,DMARC_PASS,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=4.0.0 X-Spam-Virus: Error (Cannot connect to unix socket '/var/run/clamav/clamd.ctl': connect: Connection refused) X-Envelope-From: Received: from mail.stella-maris.solutions (mail.stella-maris.solutions [46.101.232.159]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2024 09:17:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [37.84.40.239]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.stella-maris.solutions (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AAC5A7E018; Thu, 22 Feb 2024 17:16:38 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=heigl.org; s=mail; t=1708622199; bh=kKLhjS+m4PWFYwFgFyMkzwDYM65hFdrJGhA/k+txZQM=; h=Date:From:To:CC:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=OatR17lOystrhda+O0NogC5K5bHk+xK7ysoowPFL8k1i6pLYLHi+8yY7QXnJ8CsgB ZqS1rBWPmZ6+GX6Gyv/BYonTaFiNrQQvYh9slW5H8T1Tg/qgMnfGi/0NjC2bFNdMxd ZVKxvBti5Nm/PpZCL4uvnsP4jW6nZn+lwVuSvEQeAqg1p/ZYujC5X2SQlYpmziuyLX tL/3sBeWTCVL3rPIYnfpAwim3WYW8iRhf4aOEjjtIZlJvTKDs13RwlAWyu5fTXUXah S3jbopX1DELJ79w95DfnhOkgzG3q9B1rcmca5lM3j49Ss7mgrz07Pp7TcwBjh4QzOM N35Cabl7sfbZw== Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2024 18:16:33 +0100 To: internals@lists.php.net, Derick Rethans , mjec CC: internals Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] What's up with emails? User-Agent: Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <93ed96cb-2c29-773d-4dfd-34dea88fdd0f@php.net> References: <3ff26bc5-0f55-4518-a30f-60809e857ed8@betaapp.fastmail.com> <93ed96cb-2c29-773d-4dfd-34dea88fdd0f@php.net> Message-ID: <17A3C19C-FBEA-4A5D-B532-0255DD7B9576@heigl.org> Precedence: bulk list-help: list-post: List-Id: internals.lists.php.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Autocrypt: addr=andreas@heigl.org; keydata= mQINBFzEA7MBEACpvo0AbmZG6lUGMvDUebQcYVjOPrdqtnlb2WoZH9FrJyHyenzejO29VCjuekdh u44sUNgEHXxExUekguLDGZOzC9926g2rGDWO3MU1oqRlKURnOWsp/i0d9WM07ihj/lL6smT9YLea gtPCJporUiFW8JyIusBWWhlL8hp8ZDvEfmvi06xDXML3wXzH/KWmoew3LgdwCZPkQSIWemUDPZKc UL8eeVkhYIJA9VKQnGSx36p5T7Ch/l+iqiPlyY1GUNItX9AQjpr07V0kIjyK+yHn6Aw1uy1xWrLn 7ATDX8YuMvaz72+c/P2zQReMWoZNfggd2FHOPRUHvHcC9C91PuzJh8e9hvtU/szDrPvvCVpg5aRy mN/YPFJBSEqZfDelhD+8A1TJNPqSyzc21Qdd61636ynryawIW+HxFT/UN1eA7V5/fdjeRyNUJd7B 99Vo5A/lI25bIpg6cPLOLpVPFHEpNlGPQ8pcMRwnjG9GR74PTfH7Dy8Ksq8lpygPljJInZbz0870 cHlM5XSdIPTXWQFfJi0e2kfaLCEni/Vih+eL0e5F7X3RtaXY0HRFYHX8dY7ojf3sZJjdPVm3AQXY 1yNkjnRxyJ/4gIwdFwYplU6lRBL92jdDLavPWVK4Dsil/woKmsCpxClWfU/MzmQlhbdH+x8V2SYO a4aJWiixx59DxQARAQABtCFBbmRyZWFzIEhlaWdsIDxhbmRyZWFzQGhlaWdsLm9yZz6JAk4EEwEK ADgWIQRZ7tBmhrXNAHaUcA2o1UN+znJP5QUCXMQDswIbAwULCQgHAwUVCgkICwUWAgMBAAIeAQIX gAAKCRCo1UN+znJP5clsD/4vnmCp5oVIXdNXkK3PNajHR1ddpr2+Ake+bo6TS801MSd638f2Ug/e Qmu6j0XuHbgJql9wnoDh0Oq47bPxGTszPbbhD0FL1s6YBDqJKcz2okbmYRutumC52u4h8dGxbVjC M9le1rckK54aDjkzL27iGRNfQLw1vg9gdl1yRz866bZ75MItk/7BewJrodQ5zweNcDVOmYsePLpo 13peB1mzDP/tuBH4CpoeDtAb/+Rc5Qv/J6P7iMDC4fPbFIl5//Ge7blMV98seXOAYMCvDYmLcJFb nESBla/8te8lKE2E1PjwnIeMvDfYHn17CYd2UqnmlQbJbN30/Y2eiPT9w7wjrgc+qGRWEU+huGMl rDXQmmAtHPADf08QwOWpDVoZ+WFsQEB3f2fsZtfOnxXv8yb+Q16kVcPWaRyvusT5KLT39h2VvZlh H8uporNimjs7+Rl8Fs7PP6n2L+OCnI1sSCTixBQT4MDNM6IVxqhy5j8M9ig3vR7czJgVVsDmKCFi gOibvIFgxfRH2A7JjyplO034eUw7I3IJdffuBWjZ8SCfwZ3sS67UaPy01UVovSQKikEJBfADEcl4 X25YsHvHXCksYLoZHb6wvtFzUrjxXwipwzlWtNBR2gTB2lCfeCLcwYcHdN8qcgg+emxDkBHeL/Ml w5OLGW86dy6ha3BJDQgdL7kCDQRcxAW4ARAAqP1yIU7DTFTNVyyNqsylliyCCGDf7k3KLpodAHof fLGlmI4OvB/379gmYRdAmeyV3FtxKgo1sy5x4hl0zLpmMApub4MYnNbh00urb/e4TTzQPNLyihYL P6H2DODLc0FnS8P3O5cxeqqJoW6/cKCm2IMEZ6fKodgvOGh+vjkL+iNbdn1hO6oaCzK0odhIisXq IF5Mjais5UYmwVDrI7q014PlCbezRJ66f6oJtZvc4QJDKGnRbOW0ThG9uKme3g4o9R5qzOplG+Dp C9j5w85FASdgLeaLafrlAiawE0trQM9Dhjbt4oyT/ePmNXdzbeowuaQCONGXMUlzDKyxQE1yYjWC 2g/2OraS4F2i0BdZK4Lb3BlZMSfP3yVaylXJhfAn52m/q2zQyMSwMFk/naK9gcA4EaESOOXMhlwe 2B7LXZPZAVGan39QazGSxhJqfjOsRNsBT1mp+JA9qCIeQdeAilDGAfggZjJSYZCMwZdhrztx71cs sApNhKLq0cYw6HGccmoxP38BbgCuXprhSq7nDJrJ8c2TDCXZKCZp6M7AUvTo/XvGIkfsgDA3sceN edhukjgkfSUsZxVATxCjoGmyDy2N3kH59JwXYf5q/4ikoPuc4927G71Hrb0RXU21ExZ6rLC+290O cnWi90Oj4wjvxXtG5iyl52NgM2PHpm98XP8AEQEAAYkCNgQYAQoAIBYhBFnu0GaGtc0AdpRwDajV Q37Ock/lBQJcxAW4AhsMAAoJEKjVQ37Ock/ly/cP/1SSqtqsRsUtSBkmmqMHJ3okcfPGXwU85LWp IW6l4Z1hcD/b7k2h3Es0aMBSFc3mueZP+ZkHirk0xLe5NGG9vZcKE/oqotdlf+9xASGlCviU+WT9 vG50F5JKqqUc3K6OJQ84uYHmpreyjLFg5mKgh8l1NsV3gC56ny79Y37CSTHqA8y5fKpedKptc/rv eFTl3/eHZaplfb+kFqMcMNpNsTVgQHlA9mM1FwGZ3KV2witTCERQR5m4OBwGqZqRVHsD37DuD6VB CahtSAOq5fXLGZ3PewbwgoWukmTL1xqxCIv2ozXw9JlNqdyMuRdVFzcfciZTM4kL6lM4gOzElqJU 9mWK/7p0q3JF1Ie5QMBOLavEYYV2dnIy/ubm5P8RhQScnJ/mCqE+YJmfoMBq5bjdFSRaIH6WNkSW xfI/FW1EfrxisZbrIMngu7hBQKFbCFCRUN0Gj7RppyGYD9yks+x7GZAMIlxyeT+sKR9wljLuCWjk JTjKNDT8UWTr7XwJHQ2/ouI3fmI77iZCZbq9aesobv9NnBO/waAzjYAEx2ahZmM7m1rQlPS636tU Z1QVZx/4SzNiMTBsgWLDQ0VtxcEmYe54+r8Y4o0vSrMcDYgBczZe/ASpSJB4AI1lQ3o3s5p3AeYs YPBtBsysSAbd0uZ65EDc9xwSRLiMJj+x8jGy2xtu From: andreas@heigl.org (Andreas Heigl) On 22 February 2024 17:49:10 CET, Derick Rethans wrote: > On Thu, 22 Feb 2024, mjec wrote: >=20 > > On Thu, 2024-02-22 at 10:29 -05:00, Alain D D Williams wrote: > >> On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 09:05:22AM -0500, Derick Rethans wrote: > >>=20 > >>> Gmail is rejecting emails after we moved the servers without telling= us why, in enough detail to do anything about it=2E > >>=20 > >> I run other mail lists and have had similar problems with gmail recen= tly=2E > >=20 > > Gmail explicitly tightened their requirements for senders this month, = so while it's likely the server change is related, it may not be the entire= cause=2E > >=20 > > Specifically, they require: > >=20 > > - valid spf, with specific rules for quarantining email that has @gmai= l=2Ecom From but doesn't pass spf > > - valid dkim > > - dmarc configured if the server sends more than 5k emails to Gmail >=20 > We should have all of that though? >=20 > >=20 > > They also equivocally indicate a requirement for ARC and a List-Id hea= der=2E >=20 > We have a List-Id header, but I've not even heard of ARC=2E It is on our= list to investigate though=2E Our SMTP logs definitely don't say anything = about this though=2E >=20 > > This is all at https://support=2Egoogle=2Ecom/a/answer/81126=2E > >=20 > > I think ARC is a must; without it we'll never get to passing dkim at l= east, even if we rewrite from so spf passes=2E >=20 > But SPF is now passing? The postmaster tools show this: >=20 > Date DKIM success rate SPF success rate DMARC success rate > 15 Feb 2024 100=2E0% 100=2E0% 0=2E0% > 16 Feb 2024 100=2E0% 100=2E0% 0=2E0% > 17 Feb 2024 100=2E0% 100=2E0% 0=2E0% > 18 Feb 2024 100=2E0% 100=2E0% 0=2E0% > 19 Feb 2024 100=2E0% 100=2E0% 100=2E0% > 20 Feb 2024 100=2E0% 100=2E0% 100=2E0% >=20 > > I'm happy to pitch in to help getting this configured if that's helpfu= l, though I'm also very conscious that too many cooks is often a greater ha= rm than good when it comes to administration=2E But reach out if you think = I can be helpful=2E >=20 > We could definitely use some people that now email delivery=2E The main issue is that the things came together: Us moving to a new listserver and Gmail introducing new ways of fighting spam=2E The later is what makes life hars now and would also have caused trouble o= n the old server=2E We are currently in the process of implementig all of the stuff that gmail= expects us to have=2E The last ones are ARC and one-click unsubscribe=2E If you want to know more about the hoops we have to jump in addition to mo= ving the list to a new server check out https://blog=2Egoogle/products/gmai= l/gmail-security-authentication-spam-protection/ Cheers Andreas -- Andreas Heigl