Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:122342 Return-Path: <6562680@gmail.com> Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 36889 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2024 09:25:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO php-smtp4.php.net) (45.112.84.5) by pb1.pair.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 2024 09:25:54 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=php.net; s=mail; t=1707384407; bh=CnZqCwhCJuixpkiETIwcvns2B/Q9EpHp53YyD/mAT3s=; h=References:In-Reply-To:From:Date:Subject:To:From; b=QlbBDMqPl5BXubcyJjq50pBk0GCpmnERs4FHsm2qTZnVBII0CVDFxyCRZYCiD5+3N oTtCLBoJCKu9GjHIHh2zScgMGrB4D2nBGfh2t11rjoCqnYCaExTnHnn5XfiMoZBTcR 8aOtLkKzShXIVuTRPXumTvIGqcTAZ1lmGBhE86IV/Io8qcyKbdo4KqE5Oxb2Yg+idM 2mebiTofbaV9y4yOUnHR98ljdQBfZEvH+OGFjCyaaRWPFMIB6K3H1VBsTCVoU1QBDt SypF8R1/2IyOHTakyxrqbMw5StniCsGK30aF5cmSniK0wIgXSl8cl9sqO5ZzmRFKhm 7OsOaVy5plteA== Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A697D18006C for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2024 01:26:46 -0800 (PST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0 (2022-12-13) on php-smtp4.php.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,DMARC_PASS, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=4.0.0 X-Spam-Virus: No X-Envelope-From: <6562680@gmail.com> Received: from mail-oo1-f47.google.com (mail-oo1-f47.google.com [209.85.161.47]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2024 01:26:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oo1-f47.google.com with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-598699c0f1eso894456eaf.2 for ; Thu, 08 Feb 2024 01:25:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1707384352; x=1707989152; darn=lists.php.net; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=CnZqCwhCJuixpkiETIwcvns2B/Q9EpHp53YyD/mAT3s=; b=c8g73mzkAaQw+WDeJrIUAVLvv0lZz4IKI03GiOcwP0h0vyVh8gULFgseyO1IUxOBvo JVv8FMygAtKlx36xJWDBYzEry4L/KEzUhzm9t/CQybEhMiP7Ow2QkyXFDiJlzUwYn1wI IFFA5WyCs0g+ROIAp01V6icsW8MdK0xNiwhRPvofV9zaqR0Eaw/jPLk6VUVfS5jq9V1Y 4aUu0t+EnQQNRGaq7B18BKUkFxYqUk2XbRdUTC1XoIx981YBADmetpRgKJ9QZxgxAT67 wsmGcuZR5r4cGrj1/yDD1ZzAC2l1iHWgFBtQk76XRNDcAyPSR7wSZyCttnodovtgJoT0 TGyw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1707384352; x=1707989152; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=CnZqCwhCJuixpkiETIwcvns2B/Q9EpHp53YyD/mAT3s=; b=HiT7oTANq5d6j4av+zlgtYiIsoJEWuD39wpuAX2peusb+fDi1c4/nnMOBShD678Zv9 jw/z8pwpd+hphIeP3EEoFvevNLhQSYq5vMKap/0Sv2RYBe38WSxxocTq5Qt8Qrifbus4 hSbQxaHwVkKFLMarZvxQO9bPv6Qi6c3XkBQ8eoM/OmyBVz8CgALCMCTxyW+sm8QpciYB WgR8YQoQmpzehv1BygfRiN4RXwlMhi5vzw3tep4L9rTb9Dt0pddju36FC7KTSF3LFiXf SeDvm6S0V7APqpA5nt2hT0BthOfDQ8Q8hqPD5dnHoSK4hfDrVH/RPW2iWr653ETcq3cz FyNQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxpRqaI5OklV6q7hKGBhzVrsLoPXhkBOczeDidlB9Yml/wB4ucJ P0oqXCDpjmkdDwuduwKmY6/FZwNFV9TyPWt9WUobccQVpWHk3q4dfKSEHKknZQiEoDpN6Y1YzYW liniSeTpLps0lo+9UQvn5xVs1UiwKYIxhO5Bksw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHRXTM1j5CTv4VX3kPtGBZ20vOHWwcbmtipTbKx9PVBo+PlWNYBFejSmZuFOME2HG5DnzOZz/revcPQoKp2jVI= X-Received: by 2002:a4a:2406:0:b0:59a:7539:391c with SMTP id m6-20020a4a2406000000b0059a7539391cmr8927685oof.8.1707384352385; Thu, 08 Feb 2024 01:25:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <742f202d-7990-4f51-b903-7a15e3fd33c2@app.fastmail.com> <1cd8fa7b-ab62-4563-bf13-bb7801f1ce8d@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: =?UTF-8?B?Yg==?= <6562680@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2024 12:25:15 +0300 Message-ID: To: Alexander Pravdin , internals@lists.php.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d1ae770610db6598" Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Feature request: https://github.com/php/php-src/issues/13301 From: 6562680@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JPRgNC40LPQvtGA0LjQuSBTZW5pb3IgUEhQIC8g0KDQsNC30YDQsNCx0L7RgtGH0LjQuiBXZQ==?==?UTF-8?B?Yg==?=) --000000000000d1ae770610db6598 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Ok, I understand your position. Want explanations about personal behavior - please write by telegram. PHPStan is out the case. SOLID is not a marker of good architecture, it's a marker of idealistic understanding, for me. I already long ago passed that time where I can just say "this code is bad, I am leaving". New rules of business, and then, payments - there's no bad code, there's bad coders. And also "bad coders have to be replaced with AI" (especially once we understand that AI helps only if you already know the answer, they don't solve anything, but use any hype to hit employees). So language should decide - help developers or help businesses. The top of any business = do nothing. That's why business is on the wrong side related to science. Future of any language is predicted not with code beauty, but with payments in the business. Am sure, you're noticed that hard things live longer than easy things. That's a fenomen, that has explanations. Employees prefer easy jobs, businesses prefer hype. Hype requires confusion, controversy. So it's the opposite. Employees want to get more money for the job, businesses want to pay less. Pricing increases once things become more difficult, but I am asking to simplify something. From that position I am asking for bad things. At the same time, I am asking to help most people do their job more easily, to solve more tasks and continue having a job. Just because that `clever` owners will fire out all the people until war clears it out, clears all of us (they survive, because they have money). This is the story of how the strongest and tricky win over the clever and smart. That's why discussions always hit the wall "why we should". You, or language, or community, don't owe anyone anything. Times required from languages make things simpler and at the same time make hype more complex and difficult. One part is needed by employees, the second part must be done for employers. If you make things simpler - it moves tape to employees, but business owners will select more difficult solutions and more legacy, because they dont know `bad` and `good`, they know only hype. Simple things never create hype. That's the mandatory point. Btw, these explanations are very simplified and funny to declare them here. --000000000000d1ae770610db6598--