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	=?UTF-8?B?Yg==?= <6562680@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2024 19:13:20 +0300
Message-ID: <CAK=iT=UDUjCZ-25k_MkHFO7uKdWAqoJxdWLVBGM2_SYDk-JyAg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Arvids Godjuks <arvids.godjuks@gmail.com>, internals@lists.php.net
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Feature request: https://github.com/php/php-src/issues/13301
From: 6562680@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JPRgNC40LPQvtGA0LjQuSBTZW5pb3IgUEhQIC8g0KDQsNC30YDQsNCx0L7RgtGH0LjQuiBXZQ==?==?UTF-8?B?Yg==?=)

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Btw, i agree about Javascript, but on a low level it produces the most
clean code, because there's no types and rules. All types moved to
TypeScript's client side compiler.

JS 15 years ago ACCIDENTALLY created a pipeline. Named it "Promise". We
spent years after to understand that while (true) and then/catch should be
different patterns.

=D0=B2=D1=82, 6 =D1=84=D0=B5=D0=B2=D1=80. 2024=E2=80=AF=D0=B3. =D0=B2 19:08=
, =D0=93=D1=80=D0=B8=D0=B3=D0=BE=D1=80=D0=B8=D0=B9 Senior PHP / =D0=A0=D0=
=B0=D0=B7=D1=80=D0=B0=D0=B1=D0=BE=D1=82=D1=87=D0=B8=D0=BA Web <
6562680@gmail.com>:

> My function seems like this:
>
> ```
> _error_bag_error(error) {
>   if (stack.errorBag) {
>      stack.errorBag.add(error);
>   }
> }
> ```
>
> It does nothing if i didn't initialize the error bag manually.
> I should call _error_bag() inside the current function to create one in
> the stack, or _error_bag_push() (and then _error_bag_pop()) outside the
> function to collect children.
>
> Doctrine's main problem is the dreadnought that throws low level
> exceptions and forces developers to spend weeks to understand "wow, that'=
s
> the way it should be". Funny but painful. For one small benefit - reducin=
g
> the count of queries by unique insertions/deletions, maybe 10% of queries
> are removed.
>
> =D0=B2=D1=82, 6 =D1=84=D0=B5=D0=B2=D1=80. 2024=E2=80=AF=D0=B3. =D0=B2 18:=
54, Arvids Godjuks <arvids.godjuks@gmail.com>:
>
>> JavaScript is JavaScript - it's not a good role model to look at. If
>> anything, JavaScript is a collection of things of how not to design a
>> language :)
>>
>> What you are looking for is Golang.
>>
>> The level of changes you are proposing require it to go thriugh an RFC
>> process, have 2/3rds of voters to agree to it. Tland that is after a
>> feasibility study is even done - engine might not even allow to implemen=
t
>> such thi g and require exte sive modifications for a thing that should b=
e
>> done on application level to begin with.
>>
>> And memory usage is one of the biggest points against it - engine
>> allowing to store I side it arbitrary data that is logged by application=
 on
>> a per-request level is just a bad idea. People will shove megabytes of l=
ogs
>> into it in a loop and them file reports "why is php using 2 GB of RAM?" =
-
>> this is literally a daily question you get woth relation to Doctrine whe=
n
>> people try to run bulk operations, do not disable trace logger and them =
run
>> into the memory limit.
>>
>>
>> What you are proposing is a footgun at it's finest and PHP has a rich
>> history of those and we have learned from the experience as a community.
>> Things like this are left to the userland. There are many libraries that
>> help handle this.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 6, 2024, 17:35 =D0=93=D1=80=D0=B8=D0=B3=D0=BE=D1=80=D0=B8=D0=
=B9 Senior PHP / =D0=A0=D0=B0=D0=B7=D1=80=D0=B0=D0=B1=D0=BE=D1=82=D1=87=D0=
=B8=D0=BA Web <
>> 6562680@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Javascript is closer to.
>>>
>>> It allows you to throw anything, but it is still the throw statement,
>>> keeping in the mind the async nature of js - memory and processor stuff
>>> is
>>> shared by the time.
>>>
>>> JS seniors usually hate those guys who throw anything except language
>>> Error
>>> class because they skipped the mandatory level of programming - OOP. Th=
ey
>>> are now taking fun from it. We're tired of OOP for now. Once you work
>>> with
>>> batches/queue/bulks you need pipelines and chaining, and there's a thro=
w
>>> works only to stop any certain tasks and almost immediately catch the
>>> next
>>> line. So `throw` is required to be safe-shield, but solves not enough
>>> count
>>> of cases.
>>>
>>> Old, maybe 10 years ago, Fowler's article about "errors is not an
>>> exception". He explained why, but recommend to implement own error bag.=
 I
>>> tried few times implement own error bag on production ready code. And
>>> this
>>> is the hell of rewriting full nesting tree and carrying that return
>>> statement to upper level again and again, then you start to get confuse=
d,
>>> then you rewrite all return to objects with properties/getters/setters,
>>> then you understand your PHPStorm started to lag because of 70 uses in
>>> class... Better to use global error bag stack that you can enable or
>>> disable for your needs outside function ("in controller", GRASP) or
>>> inside
>>> function directly like old good times $errors[] and if ($errors) { retu=
rn
>>> null; }
>>>
>>>
>>> =D0=B2=D1=82, 6 =D1=84=D0=B5=D0=B2=D1=80. 2024=E2=80=AF=D0=B3. =D0=B2 1=
8:23, Alex Wells <autaut03@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>> > On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 3:58=E2=80=AFPM =D0=93=D1=80=D0=B8=D0=B3=D0=BE=
=D1=80=D0=B8=D0=B9 Senior PHP / =D0=A0=D0=B0=D0=B7=D1=80=D0=B0=D0=B1=D0=BE=
=D1=82=D1=87=D0=B8=D0=BA Web <
>>> > 6562680@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> - add non-breakable interface and language construct `raise` to
>>> "throw"
>>> >> error without collecting trace
>>> >> - that error could be any scalar or object, or you can implement new
>>> >> interface for them, keeping that is nested and taggable array
>>> >> - this `raise` could be catched same way as \Throwable allowing log =
it
>>> >> anywhere you need or re-`raise` again
>>> >> - `raise` statement won't start to collapse/break code, so it could =
be
>>> >> skipped without affecting application
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > Is there an existing language that does that, having both exceptions
>>> and
>>> > these silent raise statements?
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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=D0=BE=D1=81=D0=BE=D0=B1
>>> =D1=81=D0=B2=D1=8F=D0=B7=D0=B8
>>> https://t.me/gzhegow / https://t.me/%2B375296764868 / Telegram
>>> 6562680@gmail.com
>>>
>>
>
> --
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> https://t.me/gzhegow / https://t.me/%2B375296764868 / Telegram
> 6562680@gmail.com
>


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