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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2024 17:54:34 +0200
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Cc: autaut03@gmail.com, PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Feature request: https://github.com/php/php-src/issues/13301
From: arvids.godjuks@gmail.com (Arvids Godjuks)

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JavaScript is JavaScript - it's not a good role model to look at. If
anything, JavaScript is a collection of things of how not to design a
language :)

What you are looking for is Golang.

The level of changes you are proposing require it to go thriugh an RFC
process, have 2/3rds of voters to agree to it. Tland that is after a
feasibility study is even done - engine might not even allow to implement
such thi g and require exte sive modifications for a thing that should be
done on application level to begin with.

And memory usage is one of the biggest points against it - engine allowing
to store I side it arbitrary data that is logged by application on a
per-request level is just a bad idea. People will shove megabytes of logs
into it in a loop and them file reports "why is php using 2 GB of RAM?" -
this is literally a daily question you get woth relation to Doctrine when
people try to run bulk operations, do not disable trace logger and them run
into the memory limit.


What you are proposing is a footgun at it's finest and PHP has a rich
history of those and we have learned from the experience as a community.
Things like this are left to the userland. There are many libraries that
help handle this.

On Tue, Feb 6, 2024, 17:35 =D0=93=D1=80=D0=B8=D0=B3=D0=BE=D1=80=D0=B8=D0=B9=
 Senior PHP / =D0=A0=D0=B0=D0=B7=D1=80=D0=B0=D0=B1=D0=BE=D1=82=D1=87=D0=B8=
=D0=BA Web <
6562680@gmail.com> wrote:

> Javascript is closer to.
>
> It allows you to throw anything, but it is still the throw statement,
> keeping in the mind the async nature of js - memory and processor stuff i=
s
> shared by the time.
>
> JS seniors usually hate those guys who throw anything except language Err=
or
> class because they skipped the mandatory level of programming - OOP. They
> are now taking fun from it. We're tired of OOP for now. Once you work wit=
h
> batches/queue/bulks you need pipelines and chaining, and there's a throw
> works only to stop any certain tasks and almost immediately catch the nex=
t
> line. So `throw` is required to be safe-shield, but solves not enough cou=
nt
> of cases.
>
> Old, maybe 10 years ago, Fowler's article about "errors is not an
> exception". He explained why, but recommend to implement own error bag. I
> tried few times implement own error bag on production ready code. And thi=
s
> is the hell of rewriting full nesting tree and carrying that return
> statement to upper level again and again, then you start to get confused,
> then you rewrite all return to objects with properties/getters/setters,
> then you understand your PHPStorm started to lag because of 70 uses in
> class... Better to use global error bag stack that you can enable or
> disable for your needs outside function ("in controller", GRASP) or insid=
e
> function directly like old good times $errors[] and if ($errors) { return
> null; }
>
>
> =D0=B2=D1=82, 6 =D1=84=D0=B5=D0=B2=D1=80. 2024=E2=80=AF=D0=B3. =D0=B2 18:=
23, Alex Wells <autaut03@gmail.com>:
>
> > On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 3:58=E2=80=AFPM =D0=93=D1=80=D0=B8=D0=B3=D0=BE=
=D1=80=D0=B8=D0=B9 Senior PHP / =D0=A0=D0=B0=D0=B7=D1=80=D0=B0=D0=B1=D0=BE=
=D1=82=D1=87=D0=B8=D0=BA Web <
> > 6562680@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> - add non-breakable interface and language construct `raise` to "throw=
"
> >> error without collecting trace
> >> - that error could be any scalar or object, or you can implement new
> >> interface for them, keeping that is nested and taggable array
> >> - this `raise` could be catched same way as \Throwable allowing log it
> >> anywhere you need or re-`raise` again
> >> - `raise` statement won't start to collapse/break code, so it could be
> >> skipped without affecting application
> >>
> >
> > Is there an existing language that does that, having both exceptions an=
d
> > these silent raise statements?
> >
>
>
> --
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