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Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2024 22:29:57 +0100
Message-ID: <10C2867D-AF97-4EE5-B079-91383D57CE2A@dunglas.fr>
References: <497e4897-c7c8-79e3-f91f-447356e5c9ce@kumbiaphp.com>
Cc: internals@lists.php.net
In-Reply-To: <497e4897-c7c8-79e3-f91f-447356e5c9ce@kumbiaphp.com>
To: Joanhey <joanhey@kumbiaphp.com>
Subject: Re: RFC proposal: worker mode primitives for SAPIs
From: kevin@dunglas.fr (=?utf-8?Q?K=C3=A9vin_Dunglas?=)


> Le 4 janv. 2024 =C3=A0 18:21, Joanhey <joanhey@kumbiaphp.com> a =C3=A9crit=
 :
>=20
> =EF=BB=BFHi,
>=20
> I like it for start a discussion, than it's necessary.
> But we need to see the big picture.
>=20
> The CLI-SAPI is the poor brother in PHP (contrary to other languages), but=
 that is another discussion than I'll try to open later.
>=20
> Create a Worker-SAPI?
>=20
> First any CLI worker can't access the SAPI. So they don't have any benefit=
.
> So Amp, React, Revolt, Workerman, Adapterman, Symfony runtime,... can't ac=
cess the internal SAPI functions. Each need to recreate in user land PHP cod=
e for functions that already exist in PHP sapis.
> Kudos, for the RFC RFC1867 from Ilija. But we need to go farther.
> It isn't possible use header functions :(, https://github.com/php/php-src/=
issues/12304
>=20
>=20
> Later we have SAPIs than use PHP embed (really easy to use :)) or in a sim=
ilar way.
>=20
> Here we find 2 ways: forks or threads!!
> With forks we can use Super-Globals, with threads it's impossible, and for=
 that they need to encapsulate it in Request/Response objects.
>=20
> How we'll join both situations. Here start the discussion.
>=20
> Forks:
> Frankenphp, RoadRunner, Ngx-php (the fastest PHP runtime),...
> Nginx Unit still use a shared nothing approach, but it's really easy to ha=
ve both.
>=20
> Threads:
> Swoole, OpenSwoole, Swoow,... in that situation the super globals are NOT p=
ossible.
>=20
> Here some frameworks permit use both (forks or threads) depending on the m=
aster event loop that we choose. But they need to force all to the threads w=
ay to have a unified interface.
>=20
> We are talking about the main loop, because inside we can use any thread s=
ystem.
>=20
> Thanks to all, and to Kevin to start the discussion.
>=20
> PD: Actually any new PHP SAPI need to be added to the php-src to have OPCa=
che enabled. Nginx Unit and other still use cli-server SAPI to have it. That=
 need to be changed, so any SAPI can call it, without register.
>=20
> Regards
> Joan Miquel

Thanks for the summary!

For the record, FrankenPHP and NGINX Unit use threads, not forks (and recomm=
end ZTS PHP builds). And as far as I understand, Swoole etc use a reactor pa=
ttern and non-blocking IOs, not threads. Also Symfony Runtime isn=E2=80=99t a=
n engine but a library with adapters for FrankenPHP, RoadRunner, Bref etc.

The main SAPI using libphp is the embed SAPI, but some non-core SAPIs includ=
ing FrankenPHP, NGINX Unit and uWSGI use libphp with their own SAPIs. The co=
nfusing part is that you need to enable the embed SAPI through the configure=
 options to build libphp, even if the embed SAPI itself isn=E2=80=99t used.

Best regards,