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Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2023 20:30:32 -0700
Message-ID: <CAMrTa2GUszvFQC30u0mZprZ+xJVcA87bqTR+uyBid9K-VUbQNw@mail.gmail.com>
To: juan carlos morales <dev.juan.morales@gmail.com>
Cc: Kirill Nesmeyanov <nesk@xakep.ru>, internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Discussion - PHP with distributed programming features.
From: jordan.ledoux@gmail.com (Jordan LeDoux)

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On Sat, Oct 28, 2023 at 4:35=E2=80=AFPM juan carlos morales <
dev.juan.morales@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> El El s=C3=A1b, 28 de oct. de 2023 a la(s) 19:25, Jordan LeDoux <
> jordan.ledoux@gmail.com> escribi=C3=B3:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 28, 2023 at 10:54=E2=80=AFAM juan carlos morales <
>> dev.juan.morales@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What I mean is more about =E2=80=A6 migrating a running php instance to=
 another
>>> node or another php instance, in fact your php code is running, suddenl=
y
>>> we
>>> Need to move to another node, how to do it?
>>>
>>
>> This seems less like a discussion about a PHP feature and more like you
>> asking internals for tech support at work, honestly. As far as I know,
>> there isn't a way to do what you're asking, because you can accomplish t=
he
>> same thing much easier by designing your application better to make API
>> calls to services, which is what people have already suggested. The PHP =
way
>> to handle the root cause of your problem (too many resources being used =
on
>> a single machine) is to divide the application into services and use API=
s,
>> often through sockets, the delegate work to those services.
>>
>> There are also other ways of handling this common problem in web
>> application architecture. You can break up the request into multiple
>> requests on the client side so that the user sees progress happen in
>> chunks. You can use tools like RabbitMQ or other queuing services to
>> perform certain long-running tasks asynchronously. You can use more
>> powerful hardware or provision more capable nodes.
>>
>> In fact, several of these actually fall under the Actor/Object or
>> Dataflow model of implementing Distributed Programming. What PHP does no=
t
>> support is the Distributed Shared Memory model of implementing Distribut=
ed
>> Programming (which is what you are asking about apparently) because doin=
g
>> so would almost certainly make PHP worse at the things it is well suited
>> for, would massively complicate the work of maintaining and developing t=
he
>> language for the contributors to the language, and would be a massive
>> undertaking to implement in the first place.
>>
>> PHP has distributed programming features. In fact, all of the suggestion=
s
>> you have received so far ARE ways of doing distributed programming
>> features. But internals is not your, or my, or anyone else's personal te=
ch
>> support channel, and personally it feels like you haven't explained what=
 it
>> is you want to discuss with internals about improving or changing PHP's
>> support for distributed programming. Are you interested in working on an
>> RFC to clone a PHP process onto a remote box? I can't imagine that would
>> get much support here, or be something that is very simple to do.
>>
>> Jordan
>>
>
>>
> Hello Jordan, thanks for the reply. When I read you, I have the feeling
> that you are a little angry about my question, please dont.
>
> It is a very honest question, that do belong to the internals, because if
> PHP does not have a way to do it, I would like to think a way to do it
> (despite the fact someone believes is useful or not, it is just me).
>
> So again, thanks!, dont get mad :D, and I will come back later on this
> topic, in a more clear way, maybe I am not expressing myself clearly.
>
> Regards
>

I'm not angry at all, I just wanted to focus in on a discussion that is
relevant to the internals mailing list. Most of the ideas here, including
the ones I've proposed, come from our own experiences and there's nothing
wrong with that. But I didn't see anything that looked like a discussion
and I wanted to be clear about what I think this list is for, and what kind
of discussions might be productive.

I don't think that what you are talking about would be very useful, because
I expect that it would be complicated for very little benefit. But if you
think this is a way to improve the language, then I would listen. I just
wasn't hearing that.

It is also possible I am not understanding very well.

Jordan

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