Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:121380 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 33792 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2023 11:54:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO php-smtp4.php.net) (45.112.84.5) by pb1.pair.com with SMTP; 18 Oct 2023 11:54:10 -0000 Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D038F1804BC for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2023 04:54:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on php-smtp4.php.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT, FREEMAIL_FROM,FREEMAIL_REPLYTO_END_DIGIT,HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-ASN: AS15169 209.85.128.0/17 X-Spam-Virus: No X-Envelope-From: Received: from mail-yb1-f172.google.com (mail-yb1-f172.google.com [209.85.219.172]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2023 04:54:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-f172.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-d84c24a810dso7822097276.2 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 2023 04:54:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1697630048; x=1698234848; darn=lists.php.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=zIYFk9C4qq5YmrzBiFHzDVax/XafXADwWrgSZ2dOXuc=; b=CLB/wXDNUGWC/yHkFP1KDS7qxL4MwNJhM0Lz4aeeXfZtzTPmC/8JPLc745laEMh8Hw dKIlcpdh4pCetO0TYjC+tuuPPu96c0iBNVbcRcSi2y6McpTo6MxY+d17R4xvfUa05a5k G3GZ7iH2cEX0fs4jqewSV2gliC5TvKIoGelz0gW954YYDxtqAIdtq/HuaDScPJX3cVIe fBTAVsOlwmyi5dE7ABiMdFj9MEy/clvxks0KO1xaZQjg6NmjtmXrqXsevaeyDXrZOORw PyyryAmEC56BK3Fv+ZhYdMEnt53BVKZqs7NsArXuON8s8LP3LgQV8JOmEcooq9eG5vu+ 3iag== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1697630048; x=1698234848; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=zIYFk9C4qq5YmrzBiFHzDVax/XafXADwWrgSZ2dOXuc=; b=ZDUymPVkz7ajLvovuSrY7qVzLxmuFUnaQj6hRY+55PFuJ6yc5Gd8Ga8c1+qCgXXe43 IH5DvaQhCGLBC8IVDXg8LKu56Oc/VTu6WRGk2+1M4bOnhLkQsxuDungSHFD1r1YcSzrE cUo1OwWSfo8G4qAUFzKOvRi+UwphgszvJ79CiEDcsw1jPiSXnVfMbxNrLfqma6k3THJi XBL8wHrctygOoicg4yG6NpH+/sdjLnqpAhgxAEtuolH87bsAcOj+TVrfzFXeiUiQ8lEs Mq30HYaz/jgDRk9qDFrgh59SFHEiyJVAAjf5ne7YwuUx4BLBnZzPRbX4BzWMLtDeDvC4 zKXQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Ywu7GTlRzntwkkGMe+ORaSe3Yf+ir9QzZzXPktQshAxlweRSMoF 25mTITI1FZUhmsEleeIPhNMjPWjhdNfIXzAyQw8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFm924xf+fRDerhQ/Fl1ZMh3kTjk5X1/lnK8AtuxJDkbntF8l7J3qE3/Nb+vdhIv9T99j1hGZHOvXQfLMIe1cs= X-Received: by 2002:a25:8481:0:b0:d88:a049:e900 with SMTP id v1-20020a258481000000b00d88a049e900mr4940161ybk.33.1697630048498; Wed, 18 Oct 2023 04:54:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9d5388fa-a5a5-4fa5-81ff-16f6670f80b6@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Reply-To: autaut03@gmail.com Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 14:53:57 +0300 Message-ID: To: Pierre Cc: Rowan Tommins , internals@lists.php.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000003a170607fc4cf2" Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Previous discussions about generics syntax only? From: autaut03@gmail.com (Alex Wells) --000000000000003a170607fc4cf2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 2:37=E2=80=AFPM Pierre w= rote: > Le 18/10/2023 =C3=A0 13:01, Alex Wells a =C3=A9crit : > > The community has just now decided on the PHPDoc syntax for generics, > has > > just started widely adopting them in packages and has just got > first-party > > support from PHPStorm. I doubt that migrating to yet another temporary > > solution (one that still doesn't address all of the concerns) is a good > > idea right now. > > Documentation is not code, and you could have syntax errors within > without ever knowing it. Documentation is documentation and static > analysis based upon documentation is fragile. All static analyzers may > not even be in phase, when you contribute to projects you have to learn > code style and conventions, but you also have to learn documenting style > and conventions, and you must add the fact that from one project to > another, generics documentation convention changes. Even thought you > think it's "community decided convention", not all tools are in sync, > sadly, and not all the community is OK with it. > Agreed with everything. PHPDoc is and will always be a temporary solution, there's no denying, and I'd much prefer a better solution from the PHP itself - one's easier to use and parse. All I'm saying is that I don't believe it's feasible to implement another temporary solution that doesn't have too many benefits over what the community already has, especially given PHP's very limited resources. That's why I'm advocating for either fully type erased generics (with proper, somewhat stable syntax for years to come) or nothing at all. --000000000000003a170607fc4cf2--