Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:120361 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 49174 invoked from network); 19 May 2023 18:55:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO php-smtp4.php.net) (45.112.84.5) by pb1.pair.com with SMTP; 19 May 2023 18:55:17 -0000 Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88B5B180511 for ; Fri, 19 May 2023 11:55:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on php-smtp4.php.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,FREEMAIL_FROM,MISSING_HEADERS, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-ASN: AS15169 209.85.128.0/17 X-Spam-Virus: No X-Envelope-From: Received: from mail-oo1-f47.google.com (mail-oo1-f47.google.com [209.85.161.47]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Fri, 19 May 2023 11:55:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oo1-f47.google.com with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-552621bdbbbso1749716eaf.1 for ; Fri, 19 May 2023 11:55:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1684522514; x=1687114514; h=cc:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Nh+dFNVwr6pJa84GgtuipouCZdEhT8/RPMkFgiFSzYk=; b=lsQknyF/rTPg/9rJOASHyiedKkFEu+4UoCHMRLz8fBS67xXWm+7/TDuiV4L784qC1u 43chymkkUWMoWWzIOHFbshRKiEWaAjwUMt68qE6SLbdV6zcHhkO374xi4o2LdcBS+onA N5miu5ErXtmmCdIHVEWZM5FjdqmNNg2ONztr+iYzv6YED1GMyOiQ3zZMzz0uazu3s2Ss bUQmbAPYTz5IDCdh8Y9Yi9Tlst60Lp3EjvYQ93eL1WaVXWofYZK7TzjLicBovwT20z+C g3DRj9Y86YIY9JPTpCoAXfesVYrFPhf7UVYPBDCCQlhgDq4SJQF02wfNdoFTwj3hxamo 8HNQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1684522514; x=1687114514; h=cc:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Nh+dFNVwr6pJa84GgtuipouCZdEhT8/RPMkFgiFSzYk=; b=JGqLC8hl8bBUXNTbuhxfxrquor2n2A4aXICJLDTQq8W6AwXA5K6f8rLan3afxgqfpC ab7dypDgoO3qoYtYB5Hxz515hjxTkftu+0RTI3s3enl3BHxHrkz7iXrnw7bP1QInPIKY 90UR7s+sxiaPCUlGYUQj1sKW8tkpgoH1VKK4sBYSSr22Czm2zB+I0cVyh5vOD5qt+nMr I46Qg8iWOKdt3D/Mqu6IZ70+vZVXZxzZe156lbmfFIfBxtKLS9G4MUKAzPVN/Xv9V9zT 8K1EHAGSEp2IrMpm3ZjOMvrgJ8ePZl/4OiuM6CRDe4xHpMIGMZDXDULS3AFEM3vLxh1J NoGg== X-Gm-Message-State: AC+VfDy/PNUsW1VflkDR5Y7ABXt52bWMwgaxavydGSXYj1AMFnrDAT2r MvoXdX67enwso0UbbN6XGZmc1ltPa8ApvXarSxfeyb8wL4U= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ47+Jj1D57fQKPcrzLv+J1MIfJgcyDa4Bq29KrLXgDnhyeKLmTbLUqGAIiTq1gCjmf9icJFm1+gBfZZg9h8ZdY= X-Received: by 2002:aca:d17:0:b0:394:45d5:2d92 with SMTP id 23-20020aca0d17000000b0039445d52d92mr1726027oin.22.1684522514137; Fri, 19 May 2023 11:55:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <000201d9897f$aa9f9fa0$ffdedee0$@roze.lv> <3DD7832A-5A32-4F21-88F9-FA95B172013D@newclarity.net> <78f4df4c-10e3-47e8-89d9-826058e450ea@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <78f4df4c-10e3-47e8-89d9-826058e450ea@app.fastmail.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2023 20:55:03 +0200 Message-ID: Cc: php internals Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP Package for PHP From: landers.robert@gmail.com (Robert Landers) I'd also like to add that I like the 'hands-off' approach that PHP has taken in the past. I'm not a fan of some of the PSRs. I literally had someone tell me a few months ago that I would never be a 'real programmer' because I used tabs instead of spaces which is against the PSR-12 spec (which is my only deviation from the spec, and why is that even in the spec in the first place? :sigh:). Luckily for me, I guess, I think I'm 'real programmer' ... even though it still feels like a hobby (even 20 years later), but people pay me a bunch of money to do it and people seem to like my work. IMHO, the downside of PHP enshrining things like PSRs is that it discourages people from 'breaking the rules', which is where true innovation comes from (IMHO). Symfony wouldn't be as fast without goto, Laravel without it's facade thing, and WordPress without its hooks. If you look at other languages like Python, Go, C#, etc, that have come up with The-One-True-Way, you'll pick up codebases and it just looks like any other codebase. It takes all the fun out it. Nobody wants to live in a house that looks like every other house. Organizations should be able to talk about variable alignment over a coffee if it drives them nuts, and not get shot down because of some spec a committee wrote ten years ago. My 2 cents... fwiw.