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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2023 09:45:09 +0100
Cc: Andreas Heigl <andreas@heigl.org>
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To: php internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Improving Mailing-List interactions - was: [PHP-DEV]
 Moving PHP internals to GitHub
From: php@sewell.info (Matthew Sewell)



> On 13 Apr 2023, at 09:29, Andreas Heigl <andreas@heigl.org> wrote:
>=20
> Hey all
>=20
> On 12.04.23 22:44, Larry Garfield wrote:
>> On Wed, Apr 12, 2023, at 6:42 PM, Rowan Tommins wrote:
>>> Which brings me back to my earlier point: I wonder how much of the
>>> reaction is really about e-mail itself, and how much is just the
>>> documentation and sign-up forms you encounter *before* you hit the =
list.
>>> Because if it's the latter, migrating the entire community to a new
>>> platform won't help - we'll still suck at introducing anyone to that
>>> platform - and most of what we need is someone who's good with words =
to
>>> update some website copy.
>> I agree, and it's a common pattern, both here and in the earlier =
thread about deprecations/evolution.
>> Problems exist.  Both with the mailing list setup we have, and the =
evolution/deprecation process.  It's not reasonable to deny either.
>> But so often, people lead with "and here's why we should rm -rf and =
start over" or "and here's why you're all terrible" or other extremely =
not-helpful "suggestions."  That poisons the well, and totally saps any =
energy for working on the things that can and should be improved =
incrementally.
>> It makes me very sad, because if someone were actually to volunteer =
to overhaul the mailing list signup process and verify that it actually, =
you know, works reliably, there's a good chance they'd be greeted with =
open arms.  (And a fair amount of access skepticism I'm sure, but still, =
it's no secret that we'd benefit from that.)  But that's not what =
happens.
>=20
> I would like to take this as a first step:
>=20
> As I already do have access to the lists-server I'm happy to work on =
improving the lists usability.
>=20
> So far I see three different things:
>=20
> 1. Remove modification of the emails on the lists server so that DKIM =
and DMARC will finally work
> 2. Improve/Update the interfaces of =
https://www.php.net/mailing-lists.php
> 3. Update (or possibly completely remove?) =
https://www.php.net/unsub.php
>=20
> The latest is linke in the added footer that would be removed by step =
1 and that should be unnecessary anyhow as the list-unsubscribe header =
already should provide the email-clients with a way to show an =
unsubscribe button right in the email.
>=20
> Any volunteers helping are welcome!
>=20
> And please do voice concerns regarding point 1!!!!
>=20
> Cheers
>=20
> Andreas
>=20
> --=20
>                                                              ,,,
>                                                             (o o)
> =
+---------------------------------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo-+
> | Andreas Heigl                                                       =
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> | https://andreas.heigl.org                                           =
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Hi Andreas,

As someone who rejoined this list in the last 12 months and went through =
the process I'm happy to volunteer to help.

Best wishes,

Matt=