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Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2023 20:44:39 +0000
To: "php internals" <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Moving PHP internals to GitHub
From: larry@garfieldtech.com ("Larry Garfield")

On Wed, Apr 12, 2023, at 6:42 PM, Rowan Tommins wrote:


> Which brings me back to my earlier point: I wonder how much of the 
> reaction is really about e-mail itself, and how much is just the 
> documentation and sign-up forms you encounter *before* you hit the list. 
> Because if it's the latter, migrating the entire community to a new 
> platform won't help - we'll still suck at introducing anyone to that 
> platform - and most of what we need is someone who's good with words to 
> update some website copy.

I agree, and it's a common pattern, both here and in the earlier thread about deprecations/evolution.

Problems exist.  Both with the mailing list setup we have, and the evolution/deprecation process.  It's not reasonable to deny either.

But so often, people lead with "and here's why we should rm -rf and start over" or "and here's why you're all terrible" or other extremely not-helpful "suggestions."  That poisons the well, and totally saps any energy for working on the things that can and should be improved incrementally.

It makes me very sad, because if someone were actually to volunteer to overhaul the mailing list signup process and verify that it actually, you know, works reliably, there's a good chance they'd be greeted with open arms.  (And a fair amount of access skepticism I'm sure, but still, it's no secret that we'd benefit from that.)  But that's not what happens.

--Larry Garfield