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Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2023 17:47:37 -0300
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To: Larry Garfield <larry@garfieldtech.com>
Cc: php internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Future stability of PHP?
From: deleugyn@gmail.com (Deleu)

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On Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 2:26 PM Larry Garfield <larry@garfieldtech.com> wrote:

>
> No.  Stop.  This is not what Ilija said at all.  It is FUD to the point of
> disinformation, and is an insult to the hundreds of people that have
> worked, mostly on their own time, to give you the most popular web language
> in the world, for free.
>

I understand that you have misread my message as some kind of insult. I can
get 100% behind the "misinformation" aspect, so please inform me if you can.


> > There's a large world out there that thinks PHP is still PHP 4.
>
> Most of them that I've met are not PHP developers.  They're JS or Python
> or Ruby devs who like to hate on PHP as a way to build their own community
> cred.
>

Yes. And they're succeeding at luring the best PHP engineers I've met on my
career out of PHP.



> > now being forced by the language to stay behind or rewrite
>
> This is BS.  I have worked on a 20+ year old code base.  It's BS.  Stop
> spreading BS.
>

Perhaps you'd like to read the rules and guidelines of participating in the
PHP Internals and would like a chance to reword this? I would be happy to
disregard this message and read a new one where you present your message
with more clarity.



> Perhaps the risk analyses et al that Mark Baker talked about would be more
> likely to happen if core devs weren't insulted on a regular basis by people
> making hyperbolic lies and trashing their existing efforts.
>
> I've written about this before, just recently.  Please read it twice
> before posting again and insulting the work of those who have given you a
> platform for your career, for free.
>
> https://peakd.com/hive-168588/@crell/upgrading-php-upgrades


I'm sorry you feel that way. Whatever message you're trying to get across
has not reached me, at least. But I also know whatever message I'm trying
to get across will not reach you.

In fact, this is precisely the type of toxicity that habits Internals
during controversial discussions. While you have decided that I'm a
ungrateful enemy that wants to trash talk about volunteers work, I'm
actually here spending my time advocating for things that I believe could
improve on PHP out of pure selfish reasons: I don't want to leave PHP and I
don't want to be forced to take a NodeJS job, but the little bubble I live
in that's becoming the only way forward.

On Twitter you see a lot of folks advocating for more voices and
participation on Internals even if you don't have a vote. But when we come
here to participate this is how we're received?

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