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Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2023 12:45:13 -0400
Message-ID: <CAMXcktNBzEPdepU7rU5DM4yXF_acmGWYu6-EodqK0tETp7w=Qg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Jeffrey Dafoe <JDafoe@fsx.com>
Cc: PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000e724305f8fe1ae2"
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Future stability of PHP?
From: dliebner@gmail.com (Dan Liebner)

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>
> The change in null handling. We have a codebase that dates to 1998. It's
> fairly well written. Upgrading to 8 was a major effort (4 devs, 2 QA) tha=
t
> took almost a year due to the change in null handling. We have 40 XML and
> JSON APIs with various banks. Elements may or may not exist. The database=
,
> which is 45TB, has nulls all over it. And when it was all "upgraded" to r=
un
> on PHP8 all we really got that was useful to us is two new string
> functions. And a codebase that now has ?? as every third line.


This is probably my biggest stylistic gripe with PHP 8+ just because of how
ubiquitous the "undefined array index" scenario is.

In JavaScript:
```
let obj =3D {};
obj['undefinedkey'] =3D=3D=3D undefined;
let str =3D `Welcome, ${obj['undefinedkey'] ?? 'Customer'}!`;
if( obj['undefinedkey'] || $obj['undefinedkey2'] ) doSomething();
```

In PHP:
```
$obj =3D [];
($obj['undefinedkey'] ?? null) =3D=3D=3D null;
$str =3D "Welcome, " . ($obj['undefinedkey'] ?? 'Customer') . "!";
if( ( $obj['undefinedkey'] ?? null) || ($obj['undefinedkey2'] ?? null) )
doSomething();
```

On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 8:35=E2=80=AFAM Jeffrey Dafoe <JDafoe@fsx.com> wrot=
e:

>
> > I wonder about this every time I hear this claim. What exactly changed
> in PHP
> > 8.0 that made the upgrade path so difficult? The upgrade to PHP 9 may b=
e
> a
> > little more difficult because of some of the recent deprecations, but
> that's
> > still years ahead of us. So what's exactly driving people away from PHP
> 8?
> > Why is the adoption dwindling?
>
> The change in null handling. We have a codebase that dates to 1998. It's
> fairly well written. Upgrading to 8 was a major effort (4 devs, 2 QA) tha=
t
> took almost a year due to the change in null handling. We have 40 XML and
> JSON APIs with various banks. Elements may or may not exist. The database=
,
> which is 45TB, has nulls all over it. And when it was all "upgraded" to r=
un
> on PHP8 all we really got that was useful to us is two new string
> functions. And a codebase that now has ?? as every third line.
>
> -Jeff
>
> --
> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
> To unsubscribe, visit: https://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>

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