Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:119541 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 36887 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2023 10:14:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO php-smtp4.php.net) (45.112.84.5) by pb1.pair.com with SMTP; 13 Feb 2023 10:14:20 -0000 Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4335B18055D for ; Mon, 13 Feb 2023 02:14:19 -0800 (PST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on php-smtp4.php.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-ASN: AS15169 209.85.128.0/17 X-Spam-Virus: No X-Envelope-From: Received: from mail-pg1-f181.google.com (mail-pg1-f181.google.com [209.85.215.181]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Mon, 13 Feb 2023 02:14:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg1-f181.google.com with SMTP id a23so7754909pga.13 for ; Mon, 13 Feb 2023 02:14:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; t=1676283254; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=0tx5+xESGEe3gW4q/tNdrILntFMlBSV5e8BKe5zZH84=; b=eajPtvp7Q0hHuPThUO/p60wdpZawkb1Ez3kN0Rd0mDa1agH7zqVqjxDdInmGhdi176 bUoUCpk8BTlUs1PoL66fDJiJmI+U5niAd3cuYwijHG8GnCwE2bsCDHcgdgA76GtMBDqb qR3z672TjtQripnswVjMDz1ac5Vc1a1QMSaTeETPlMo73b4gimvb+te8f1DQseBuCPJP c2VEp87v2USGOURpiNe0TVRlMQ85/RY722zIK+sNza/EPjeSv7k5uOa5h6VXaFYrcsi/ Xi84P8qbadbQggsGJg54eISVdeyq5XhgDGJSbnfQxDOw6MMBQXsNojcXXld2Jhjy1Pwm O3mw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1676283254; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=0tx5+xESGEe3gW4q/tNdrILntFMlBSV5e8BKe5zZH84=; b=Gle/grOryliCJwfw21I38i5r8acjc8LQ3ufUalwv0uPy21eSj5+aUxNQoy+NX2ewYD /n2SNJthQUir+k+kgi8ahlbIIb/qoQLL5v5rQSVcOaUzEKRTZJ3AbS4U9dSXyx/HnNzn NS3Y7aANjIbjWmstC1FmCtuzu6S77DHoReisQEOp3CBG+laUJ3TfMN2nj9RKhgo+mDrb akasvNnopkcvM8PDuTjFcSxpfPqd7zztMBIg0h1ofJYaw9rTiDDeZ1N2lbQJ4QnC3P3x znNu6F1B29GveB5NzDY23x3AiH+s1KhgnxeKOjjQuMMzAGa6U29bS/Yw+1b4f1d5PmQo EMaQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKWGUcI7AYQcWZTiMcL+sabAC04IKHrnPSdKEviQ/64Ci7t8T6PI dn4GYmesZ0nLKMY96aHHea0fapkeROHYUz1TOu4EAkytqiU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set9a+Eg5DFkZM+2mNhI321PotOgjY5SUs17KW1lpmajc3UEbsUtEasUKzFWoTjxWXTxwsWHZ9s9X35pF98iFfp0= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:96a1:0:b0:5a8:b3db:4600 with SMTP id g1-20020aa796a1000000b005a8b3db4600mr584545pfk.3.1676283254408; Mon, 13 Feb 2023 02:14:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1cb213ea-ff7d-c4b2-5345-fadbc5953c94@bastelstu.be> In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2023 12:13:48 +0200 Message-ID: To: Dmitry Stogov Cc: Max Kellermann , internals@lists.php.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ec0b0805f4921b61" Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] include cleanup From: arvids.godjuks@gmail.com (Arvids Godjuks) --000000000000ec0b0805f4921b61 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good day dear Internals! I've been following this thread/RFC from its inception to the current moment. I have watched the situation deteriorate and at this point, I have major concerns about the events that transpired, the motivations of some decisions and the apparent major lack of communication. But the worst thing, in my opinion, is that the mistakes that were made about a decade ago are happening in this thread: Cubstomping and alienating new contributors who are willing to take on major amounts of work and are willing to take on the long-term maintenance. I'm not alone in these concerns, but those people can do their own messaging. What I do not understand the most is the apparent "Not in my backyard" attitude to this RFC that seems to be happening. Improving the codebase ALWAYS requires breaking things and to be absolutely frank, I do not see how "merging conflicts" can be a sound reason for refusing header file shuffling. Or, in this case, "breaking extensions". I mean, the fixes are simple - update the header files. The author of the RFC is willing to provide the documentation/comments so it is easy to do. PHP 5 =3D> PHP 7 engine transition was a major multi-year endeavour that was multiple orders of magnitude harder and broader problem, but everyone stuck to it and it was done. This RFC is nowhere even close to that but offers long-term improvements to the project. I am concerned about the apparent unwillingness to take on code cleanup projects. Can everybody involved cool their heads for a week, come back and talk this one out and make a plan for how to make the improvements in a way that parties can agree it should be handled? --=20 Arv=C4=ABds Godjuks +371 26 851 664 arvids.godjuks@gmail.com Telegram: @psihius https://t.me/psihius --000000000000ec0b0805f4921b61--