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References: <ded42b3e-3149-1192-0f86-07715fcb7a3e@woltlab.com> <CA+kxMuTVMeqVN1UFwau3eaVgLa2DKRKaErzSdFCKLw9v066mVQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CA+kxMuTVMeqVN1UFwau3eaVgLa2DKRKaErzSdFCKLw9v066mVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 15:59:29 -0700
Message-ID: <CAHWSxWSBh5oPuKxjWbmCCSxLE5WhJCwQBus5WrdO1WMNmwodaA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Dan Ackroyd <Danack@basereality.com>
Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Tim_D=C3=BCsterhus=2C_WoltLab_GmbH?= <duesterhus@woltlab.com>, 
	PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC [Discussion]: Redacting parameters in back traces
From: ryan.jentzsch@gmail.com (Ryan Jentzsch)

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Answering the question: How do other languages handle this problem? Or how
do they avoid it in
the first place?

Python basically doesn't handle the problem at all and offers this advice: =
Be
sure to delete all debugging related code before code delivery!

See section [9.2.1 production code cannot contain any debug entry points]

https://www.fatalerrors.org/a/python-general-programming-specification-09-s=
ecurity-programming-specification.html

On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 10:01 AM Dan Ackroyd <Danack@basereality.com> wrote=
:

> Hi Tim,
>
> On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 at 14:05, Tim D=C3=BCsterhus, WoltLab GmbH
> <duesterhus@woltlab.com> wrote:
> >
> > this is a follow-up for my "Pre-RFC" email from last Friday, January,
> 7th.
> >
> > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/redact_parameters_in_back_traces
> >
>
> How do other languages handle this problem? Or how do they avoid it in
> the first place?
>
> From the RFC:
> > Specifically the back trace collection should be updated to use an
> object of class
> > \SensitiveParameter as the value for all parameters that are marked wit=
h
> the
> > \SensitiveParameter attribute.
>
> To me....these words are not clear. Does the following sentence say
> the same thing?
>
> "When the backtrace is generated, any parameter that has a
> 'SensitiveParameter' attribute will not have it's value stored in the
> backtrace, but instead will be replaced with an SensitiveParameter
> object.
>
> If so, the RFC could be updated to be clearer.....if not, then the RFC
> should be updated to be clearer.
>
> Also, having parameters replaced with another type doesn't seem
> obviously correct. There should probably be some words justifying why
> that is the correct thing to do, rather than just replacing any values
> with "****REDACTED***" or other simple behaviour.
>
> > On shared web hosting, the customer might not be able to configure it.
>
> My personal opinion is that shared web hosting shouldn't be a thing
> that exists in 2022. And definitely shouldn't be used for anything
> where secrets need to be maintained. Yeah shared hosts might have a DB
> they can connect to, but those credentials should only be usuable from
> the shared host to the DB.
>
> cheers
> Dan
> Ack
>
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>

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