Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:116405 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 76801 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2021 08:32:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO php-smtp4.php.net) (45.112.84.5) by pb1.pair.com with SMTP; 16 Nov 2021 08:32:43 -0000 Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 554ED1804F2 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 01:27:37 -0800 (PST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on php-smtp4.php.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,NICE_REPLY_A,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-ASN: AS14061 46.101.128.0/17 X-Spam-Virus: No X-Envelope-From: Received: from mail.stella-maris.solutions (mail.stella-maris.solutions [46.101.232.159]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 01:27:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.16.1.187] (heigl.gw.tgnet.de [80.72.250.242]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.stella-maris.solutions (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5C9697E002 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 09:27:34 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=heigl.org; s=mail; t=1637054854; bh=+8yytot3++FLnJohLj+9LA+oHOfalRGNoQSOVeHT35I=; h=To:References:From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=OqH+NXn/K73TCGrBF0tB2mJUS2zhXUSNcG0Hn0/ITH7h945SeW6EA/tL5ZADbEeZm +ntCzRkxOR33lMlaKgOQXkY+DlSR8mUEdqv2XorTOIuusmeYjYGXtH5XRaWsDQGYwh AKmeuXuyb1aeeLYI5aHpbIYP3uSrYUGyq4E1zXSz+BFUPeuBITavOljiXiM4eoq+dr 08IKE01IPXt4Yny2Y6drlrnJKdwWQ3RED0G7jQ1KVZ8qfbazmfVcGDKEba6Dc1SKhr kdnLEnM5iq4n1W0N4ElTgXvL21XkzOAvTB3/i0LfHY5PQgJs51gdITCLwvrrOG23BY eV+oJwRjWRUiA== To: internals@lists.php.net References: <371ca983-2b07-ae39-3629-49cf7ff8ee64@heigl.org> <497ab532-a39d-389c-8bca-86768650c2f4@heigl.org> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 10:27:30 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="TLBUmGFhcO8FBGglgOof2dY35ZV9oNQa9" Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [RFC] Deprecate dynamic properties From: andreas@heigl.org (Andreas Heigl) --TLBUmGFhcO8FBGglgOof2dY35ZV9oNQa9 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Jm60aZNVX4g9ud7HU3plKrRxlxnsc4wXu"; protected-headers="v1" From: Andreas Heigl To: internals@lists.php.net Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [RFC] Deprecate dynamic properties References: <371ca983-2b07-ae39-3629-49cf7ff8ee64@heigl.org> <497ab532-a39d-389c-8bca-86768650c2f4@heigl.org> In-Reply-To: --Jm60aZNVX4g9ud7HU3plKrRxlxnsc4wXu Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------DCC6E4FCEE77E4F6C673C79A" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------DCC6E4FCEE77E4F6C673C79A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey all On 16.11.21 10:16, Rowan Tommins wrote: > On 15/11/2021 17:20, Andreas Heigl wrote: >=20 >> When you are testing whether writing 'X' to a property and then=20 >> reading from that property gives that 'X' back, then everything should= =20 >> be good.=20 >=20 >=20 > I see, yes, code that is 100% perfectly tested can get away without the= =20 > language performing any error checking at all - the behaviour is all=20 > guaranteed by the tests. I would be very surprised if even 1% of PHP=20 > applications can claim such comprehensive tests. The topic here was that new code can verify the declaration of a=20 property by using tests. That does not need to happen on the language=20 level. I was never talking about adding tests for existing code. >=20 >=20 >> Yes: That rips off a completely different topic: Testing "getters" and= =20 >> "setters".=20 >=20 >=20 > Unless you have zero business logic in your classes, testing getters an= d=20 > setters is absolutely not sufficient. Everywhere that accesses a privat= e=20 > or protected property has the potential to mistype it and cause subtle = > bugs. >=20 >=20 >> That is absolutely correct. The main question is: "Do we *need* to=20 >> spot this behaviour in old code"? Not "Do we *want* to spot this=20 >> behaviour in old code".=20 >=20 >=20 > Yes to both questions. A number of "uses" of this feature are not=20 > actually deliberate uses which need protecting by adding the attribute,= =20 > they are mistakes that are going unnoticed in those warrens of untested= ,=20 > un-analysed code. Those code bases are exactly the ones that benefit=20 > from the language having the run-time checks built in. That highly depends on your view-point. There are a lot of people out=20 there that do not require that this behaviour *needs* to be spotted. Cheers Andreas --=20 ,,, (o o) +---------------------------------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo-+ | Andreas Heigl | | mailto:andreas@heigl.org N 50=C2=B022'59.5" E 08=C2=B0= 23'58" | | https://andreas.heigl.org | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ | https://hei.gl/appointmentwithandreas | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ --------------DCC6E4FCEE77E4F6C673C79A Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="OpenPGP_0xA8D5437ECE724FE5.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: OpenPGP public key Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_0xA8D5437ECE724FE5.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- xsFNBFzEA7MBEACpvo0AbmZG6lUGMvDUebQcYVjOPrdqtnlb2WoZH9FrJyHyenzejO29VCjue= kdh u44sUNgEHXxExUekguLDGZOzC9926g2rGDWO3MU1oqRlKURnOWsp/i0d9WM07ihj/lL6smT9Y= Lea gtPCJporUiFW8JyIusBWWhlL8hp8ZDvEfmvi06xDXML3wXzH/KWmoew3LgdwCZPkQSIWemUDP= ZKc 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attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEOHo7et0VdZk8RJK34Ff+SCK3tkUFAmGTeYIACgkQ4Ff+SCK3 tkXPjQ/+JNdFOZVONUdKnlxbQkkrEXPs890buFC1B+BBnVGa4Q+7dZV/Xq9WxRcB 8jWTzEcdMnsX+rBUZJ6c7UnaQyQ5pRnfC7igLvcGsKAuMn92wzS4qtKjVSybUMEN sDO8RrdeuO6M9b4EtLmE+PxntPw50+r9HISRJhDQ45DpLMQHlA7yWK4Rkjh3W/kM liMmW3UmITCvQW9vnotWBwHi2+m6p5mFDTXIIPoU2lfOKw20pSWBSB8TrrFH7qq0 bs1VipkjV2uQxLks28EmOi26QQsSu/NKkuzRT4SpuhPTYx2YP5mzE/szF0+XophR rfV79voJ/johfwI32ny9iuM+gb3+lJSqcAneQdjo1VhmBUpsW7dvcPTrOBW80swB jXCfGalVgQQJ1AteN7oUz3P77j/OUYB1M/fIrKW7E6NUEk6Z7xDzHXprQ1hF+AoZ VtYgnMG151/Hz/J4/qNKKZ3p442H4ZgT3ja4gOhj1m6YS+t+UEa+oewiGc+jeP02 dxDJKbTzZSe7A3y0ltJdfq3AYdlbkvtYqAwnglaFD2TsqQ0SJdpFpceih+vr0IL0 6Sf74B9HvCh1U5PxFe0akoqJ0/4FWxNk11mC88QbfMHKcWOTUZnowVCLU5yJxxnZ I45LcKOWEo/J0Msj+Qw4+Mmf3ft4KazexsaIHcdUIUjsBA1n83k= =8DT9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --TLBUmGFhcO8FBGglgOof2dY35ZV9oNQa9--