Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:116381 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 6486 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2021 16:26:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO php-smtp4.php.net) (45.112.84.5) by pb1.pair.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2021 16:26:04 -0000 Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC10C1804B5 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 09:20:48 -0800 (PST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on php-smtp4.php.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,NICE_REPLY_A,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-ASN: AS14061 46.101.128.0/17 X-Spam-Virus: No X-Envelope-From: Received: from mail.stella-maris.solutions (mail.stella-maris.solutions [46.101.232.159]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 09:20:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.16.1.187] (heigl.gw.tgnet.de [80.72.250.242]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.stella-maris.solutions (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B0ED87E002 for ; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 17:20:46 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=heigl.org; s=mail; t=1636996846; bh=uVcnFrCegc7eLNoEuUu5CWRqsx5lrJTy3suH6PfzDJk=; h=To:References:From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=esoIRiQPNcNjl+2t9S7iC4GTj99NMTMxlKC1nM8xlnrCYV4AIP30iv9Gb0SsydQE0 1pnP3akeWrfvhRwTjeHQZDyk3Pk0h1Pt6tudblgH66Y3EXQ2au48NWtcuaw9rqktVL NLmvQmXA+qYgceuNCjAxaxg0X8yOh2h7DPlJJxZrgpoDcBO2lfgYMzLolE5vQgJali 2W8r4op5BFkbALWq0kF3xrwB14gXRoXWXi7YD7ZH5wDi+Up4Uf6LM2C9m5wBU206KL JNMF39gfICEtPY/dyEvX7fTwbTtxf0gTCHO70Nx+UebimWHJMLnu2sp4CQsGHLoPfl OsW3j7UuuDRLQ== To: internals@lists.php.net References: <371ca983-2b07-ae39-3629-49cf7ff8ee64@heigl.org> <497ab532-a39d-389c-8bca-86768650c2f4@heigl.org> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 18:20:42 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="5OFQqqzYakqcBDXKcuXtDu1jfwRxj5RaG" Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [RFC] Deprecate dynamic properties From: andreas@heigl.org (Andreas Heigl) --5OFQqqzYakqcBDXKcuXtDu1jfwRxj5RaG Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="NQeyRYDzHIEGLBG9C99gmkWOk9k2GlzQ7"; protected-headers="v1" From: Andreas Heigl To: internals@lists.php.net Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [RFC] Deprecate dynamic properties References: <371ca983-2b07-ae39-3629-49cf7ff8ee64@heigl.org> <497ab532-a39d-389c-8bca-86768650c2f4@heigl.org> In-Reply-To: --NQeyRYDzHIEGLBG9C99gmkWOk9k2GlzQ7 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------349AB84A6DD4E821B5C3754B" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------349AB84A6DD4E821B5C3754B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Rowan, hey all On 15.11.21 17:52, Rowan Tommins wrote: > On 15/11/2021 16:23, Andreas Heigl wrote: >> One thing, that can verify the correct working of properties, whether = >> that is dynamic or static ones, is testing. >=20 >=20 > Can it? I can't actually see how that would work, without also having a= =20 > way to detect when dynamic properties were accessed, which brings us=20 > full circle. Also: When you are testing whether writing 'X' to a property and then reading=20 from that property gives that 'X' back, then everything should be good. You either typed the name of the property correctly or you have a typo=20 in the setter and getter (or however you set and got the value).=20 Nevertheless you should be able to figure out whether you accidentally=20 misstyped a property name somewhere as that should break the test=20 (unless you misstyped the name twice). ANd whether you are doing the=20 assignement to a static property or to a dynamic one should be=20 irrelevant, the reading and the writing process are the same. Yes: That rips off a completely different topic: Testing "getters" and=20 "setters". >=20 >> So the mistakes-part would be easy to handle.=20 >=20 > If you are working with a million lines of code going back 20 years,=20 > "write tests for everything" is not "easy to handle"; it's a long-term = > ambition which you chip away at when priorities allow. The intention is not to write tests for existing code. As the intention=20 is exactly to be able to leave existing code as it is. Otherwise the=20 approach to "add the Attribute and be done" would be much easier. The intention is much more to make sure that *new* code does not write=20 accidentally to the wrong property. Which is what this RFC is all about. = Make sure that dynamic properties are not accidentally used. >=20 > "Logging all deprecations and warnings on a production workload",=20 > however, *is* easy to handle. Diagnostic messages in logs are the *only= *=20 > way this behaviour will be spotted in old code. That is absolutely correct. The main question is: "Do we *need* to spot=20 this behaviour in old code"? Not "Do we *want* to spot this behaviour in = old code". >=20 >=20 >> What I am still missing is the differentiation between "everything is = >> strict and you have to explicitly opt-in to make it dynamic" and an=20 >> "everything is dynamic and you can use a marker to mark this=20 >> explicitly an intended behaviour". That would allow users to mark a=20 >> class explicitly to use dynamic features even though it would make no = >> difference code-wise. >=20 >=20 > I'm not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean, create the attribute, = > but don't actually do anything with it? Would the plan be to deprecate = > later? Never remove at all? As currently there is no direct intention to remove the feature for=20 good, why should we force it? And espechialy why do we need to force=20 those maintinaing existing code to adapt their code? For now the possibility could be to keep everything *as is*. Plus add an = attribute to make absolutely explicit that we want to use this feature. The next step could then be to create a setting that will notify about=20 dynamic assignments in classes that are not marked by the attribute. I'm = not talking about a deprecation note here. More something like a notice=20 (not a warning as that is too severe!). That way the behaviour can come=20 up in log files. Perhaps a new Level of notice like a=20 "bad_coding_practice". Or we use different "lanes" of reporting. One for = notices, errors, warnings et al and one for deprecations and such=20 asignment-oddities. When that has been done (should so far all be BC) and code-maintainers=20 have had enough time to modify their codebase (definition of "enough=20 time" is here clearly the main topic and needs discussion with=20 maintainers!) then we can talk about possibly phasing out the feature. My 0.02=E2=82=AC Cheers Andreas --=20 ,,, (o o) +---------------------------------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo-+ | Andreas Heigl | | mailto:andreas@heigl.org N 50=C2=B022'59.5" E 08=C2=B0= 23'58" | | https://andreas.heigl.org | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ | https://hei.gl/appointmentwithandreas | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ --------------349AB84A6DD4E821B5C3754B Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="OpenPGP_0xA8D5437ECE724FE5.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: OpenPGP public key Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_0xA8D5437ECE724FE5.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- xsFNBFzEA7MBEACpvo0AbmZG6lUGMvDUebQcYVjOPrdqtnlb2WoZH9FrJyHyenzejO29VCjue= kdh u44sUNgEHXxExUekguLDGZOzC9926g2rGDWO3MU1oqRlKURnOWsp/i0d9WM07ihj/lL6smT9Y= Lea gtPCJporUiFW8JyIusBWWhlL8hp8ZDvEfmvi06xDXML3wXzH/KWmoew3LgdwCZPkQSIWemUDP= ZKc 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attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEOHo7et0VdZk8RJK34Ff+SCK3tkUFAmGSlusACgkQ4Ff+SCK3 tkWQgQ/+JHdMbBZbnj2rdYR+P/ODEkGmL6g/u1DJDcNVXYeB/iZOR/3Mlm+k65c4 IWKt4CQWDLWfjD0fR5IjuxuSKZUoMFTEGxCRoMlLNTlDV858lsCfHpxnAd3vTGDu 4YrCO3oucMY1jt0D5Fas1q/g3cGpr/cx/xRwzT13kPW/Q2ViO+F0lJv0QnEn5f1W AhBDYZlOKh4+ijwacLF0JcfE0XLB8kUWemIqi802de+7KQJ5WCH6gxSDw+iHLDVJ cO+O/v4MoKl+9cSr8x4DiL6x2JC5uyKYHKzFCQ1MogJJTTuYQjXNMwGtY110pq/J Fu4teYii7DbbCNFOuO+J1EX0a3xxbR0+Up0RXU1D2+gT6GRScvSbWEUiK/VwGVtS 6lwrCTjOLXE8A6eS/BLrAlEle2gDAMhhiJJplACrQCnl134j0dZUY8TvT64E7eZq siTu95Z8VSN3JduOxYe4Tu9S2a3Azzn4PmtKehlZIZ163KHO8lpxMP8RMEo/7QLb 9BFtbrEUmaSiin1mY63+wEKRSo0Q9T1z9/vD2ZsTma5JgPLeg6Y3RVFHK4xRiZYP LWOk/p5qJCLawXRRcqwBgEIWWHp9ifRrXkk4T/v0Va4m74ILkKv/vnSs316xBoY+ tgPaLeHoyjDlZ2UyBy6ot1/6sCu4IAWynY3ueUCzsxipXtkgB/I= =8Exi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --5OFQqqzYakqcBDXKcuXtDu1jfwRxj5RaG--