Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:116094 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 35275 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2021 02:01:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO php-smtp4.php.net) (45.112.84.5) by pb1.pair.com with SMTP; 19 Sep 2021 02:01:09 -0000 Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F7E51804B2 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 2021 19:41:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on php-smtp4.php.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_NONE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-ASN: AS15169 209.85.128.0/17 X-Spam-Virus: No X-Envelope-From: Received: from mail-qt1-f181.google.com (mail-qt1-f181.google.com [209.85.160.181]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Sat, 18 Sep 2021 19:41:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-f181.google.com with SMTP id d11so12376902qtw.3 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 2021 19:41:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=newclarity-net.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=Cxdj8HQ3/H0ElURfh56XGQu05o0NsHDiqI9401vijZg=; b=jZrUG2Q/uuJutepS13xCSXsSFnAk05t/wmHMB6m57w14tTIUDCJNWET8ptBo2W1AeE OhmLRaMaBkbjZw3vgCGN/OYH1iQR/12noPccmrGgFR/+W8rhRVcgjVMc4kk8jHCcOWW/ 0FUiZSISckyvDusI5rwqYh27Liwx+9xoMosY/6WiVA/LroO/0r+B0v+vlyx4VeiuXQIc bcLmyCX+ylNbimmp0b0CUJQPKUpKynrS+0a9gSn0X7fNGKggQQjrsdtDPlQ4mm4ThiSX B2hYlyc60lAPMfBM1oGIvFOigXsHU+aE2TgqPQm5P/evgyX/Kduc1the1vjOgSCk+u6Q +wNA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=Cxdj8HQ3/H0ElURfh56XGQu05o0NsHDiqI9401vijZg=; b=YAQ+GShLjyasaQaO3Wy/Oj/i+yQWfMob4lvR3imEZjEqVAtRdpaViFaBOD1WtxVbjg VSaRsyryVaL/bK3zHviravTVqaJLXsYdzOAe6XbJVt/LvplnOGzyqA5fQrq++aMWGLZ6 n2pJn/lqRWQUrP+rTheQo3Ao94uANOFLyEoHUk9Goiwc3inQCAoyjyPID5gdgEaAn/Lh PyXTL8l3l/NyaQB19YIvf71Q3ulRRaWrC1AUSk+cK9A6Rf1unfRo2asrF/hNZqSgXxKn UXnP+BveXhY5cgNbRfqNtTNsfPCMvzJJxkRkXiVp6FaOBwqbi5NwEOjsS1P0uQqiMFni qzKw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533GiIHoxwdzJ1yIPIEVmUW0UPCIkCM+krN99a2Cg7gXU5ybXVNq zpTSfxWUekz4eWU0g9PGF02gnHPPbnXbgNkG X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzqflplDt4XDqwmVr29NTtRQSY/CRdVWfruXYKxO/txKPdP67RrQevcmSQ6Tg00/iAg7/5CrQ== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:187:: with SMTP id x7mr17379729qtf.231.1632019289177; Sat, 18 Sep 2021 19:41:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.10] (c-24-98-254-8.hsd1.ga.comcast.net. [24.98.254.8]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r9sm5556310qkm.99.2021.09.18.19.41.28 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 18 Sep 2021 19:41:28 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) In-Reply-To: <29eb9519-ab67-44b2-9d62-9c591715946a@www.fastmail.com> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2021 22:41:27 -0400 Cc: php internals Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <16546D1F-33E7-4F1C-BC31-DD33D119A8F2@newclarity.net> References: <29eb9519-ab67-44b2-9d62-9c591715946a@www.fastmail.com> To: Larry Garfield X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Add `final class Vector` to PHP From: mike@newclarity.net (Mike Schinkel) Hi Larry, > On Sep 18, 2021, at 12:03 PM, Larry Garfield = wrote: >=20 > Rather than go point by point, I'm going to respond globally here. >=20 > I am frequently on-record hating on PHP arrays, and stating that I = want something better. The problems with PHP arrays include: >=20 > 1. They're badly performing (because they cannot be optimized) > 2. They're not type safe > 3. They're mutable > 4. They mix sequences (true arrays) with dictionaries/hashmaps, making = everything uglier > 5. People keep using them as structs, when they're not > 6. The API around them is procedural, inconsistent, and overall gross > 7. They lack a lot of native shorthand operations found in other = languages (eg, slicing) > 8. Their error handling is crap Would you mind elaborating on points #3 and #8? =20 It is not clear to me what you are getting at with those points. -Mike=