Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:115833 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 27187 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2021 19:45:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO localhost.localdomain) (76.75.200.58) by pb1.pair.com with SMTP; 25 Aug 2021 19:45:21 -0000 To: internals@lists.php.net References: Autocrypt: addr=ramsey@php.net; keydata= mQINBGCHQTYBEAC6IU9aXEpVuLJNAzXwL7q9Vt1PkxJHr7kJynUg/3ISrOdJy2Ebola7GbEd vLZ69o+NbsL5vmOmT2AD0pEGfMgE9KWJ122iEfN4hrWThz+sHcVd/TKX9E98g+HTpoJGtYcp 6jYxG0YRP7dn1zSn9CawVJpMsoS2G0JZB/q2lIELoPRLMjicRDBEfamTPi3vyYiuf4vvCcYY z3AEMYirt5f7rBrVOs3FVBozEqrN2fPRWvFgTnhsQ8MEiq5/DMsnxFq2wgheAKPIAXhZiJFo KHsrpiAANEmGZBY2pbW05rBY1ZmJpi1yCrSk582cdPo2Ca+NrNEPJ9spoEinAtApp/orirJY bjKViWqmh7mYYyv/NAQKwGBE1up3tSGVj0rKG3f9seLvYsApHf0lhEQN/ypzC+pYDlSXzWxc Q8bifixb6XulaEgB5XOHwuvpTK6HoNNdZM44Fl+B/eAXaebL6Vh0P1EN/2DBr4FGNb8vlXdv Gxs7rJbJ8+aNmYeNIdg5qbYubNsO2fU7yw9kTDNTej63Ql1a0Md2wfZze8dZy6LJ/tL//IH3 JPd0jvT1y0LVIKoYVrIfv06zolVplqi72zfec1kpw0VR6dT/LyhBlyNumqJMRHdZlX4pUCpx 79pOonjHNTNuhjOPLlzai0ooWBtloDZfNGoFRVNNJv/hGvVM+wARAQABtBtCZW4gUmFtc2V5 IDxyYW1zZXlAcGhwLm5ldD6JAlQEEwEIAD4WIQQ5tkE0PYwQSysUbcP5w53AuWmFRAUCYIdB NgIbAwUJBr8a7wULCQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRD5w53AuWmFRMyWEACO9nAp /ahKv7UQfZ/bdNgj4BbSyVRQSCSH1ngkS0LL9r5qlhmvXoarD0943dMk6jbFdoUU5M7zZ62y EFLR20QJtqTc+O+ApXCB7qm3ZO4MH8hB8Nr1qRLYlUx2yQNWqkMqQawo3XybdLOucIOB0qaH UnpSTgNLIVgYQYUoFOJFL8SSj03BdVDOYgI5pvDlSEC1HmQyxTCVehQB5jhtCZrxjIT6dR3d 2HTYMsoZRdSa6sfzCvnkQV210gDEUpgblHFeadem5LdQkP71OTcItwdhxabL2uY+v/TWa+Fe avItg3uAsiKV499X7Co34LN5NkoSA1Ieq78coZAh6tY6nOb2EpbZxfWyBIbfzJ9/Ny1KC/rw Xo2P1CESkoU7eniupXJwMWv7o2+Jzb6D/lBhwrE0XDSvraLow8UmBdZyNMxxigpjUZhMo1ui qeHjbKaDZJvHQMBmhL4L1TTOSaOcwCP4uIwTteJRu6k1YR9a1VBTlAyjPhzA+gHYjkqdnV15 mOV2uDjCfKlmzxFED/6sxXXHkC/2I5s00DmqK4QHQf9lCz4gdF4Uiabs9x0ntCbs/LAVQqWm wEB5PPvsnTn1kW+4UdaMUuqiYtkyJU+bzkel/L+JHHMZr6EEG50nVVEx0oG6f4n1RSE3pPEW 3vWjUZ7uIvjTpCoAN7MIM5ZCXCnwxrkCDQRgh0E2ARAA2NPzmrdm/BA3DUijyTXcq0JQ0Pjd n8k26tVz04U3uX950U9Y3qWKn7Iv4uP+q82tgDL8sTzuwEErB2JQWB8XHKgh9kPdIwk7u4lC clOuSsd2mQt1O1ROPo5fNVuf2+aqo72TUcS4A2Q57zu4QRYe2/o4+8dQAbB3cKvs145oNpiQ gbA+G2uY0Gj6/p4q74a/2O+OJhqWlVkZYO3fy4S+9xkcueOg4AlXo4HeerzLIthwctgSrY8S K9p3dsiZ9dvgOcnp7moDlacnvBeQ8u1CxSeomHtfzaaFZ8oqb95tIROAtMdbyMPLYl0fOXG9 GhrmIIzoBMiwhPSDZjENGWXdSamcCtiMlostJwzVSV6pM3N2I2GXK2IgW/HVe5LwH9BPlJ4i GE2LQVNqzlgTN2k0+OyYen7bLP7UOHtBy3h2ab6VsCbZDx29Yxg/9PInGR+F8lcSJRDIc4rg GXQQ06+7+8Upqj68OPWn1ol30TldNY/eLRXbxePMAziG96iAQW7DXXajLxz00oatsDB5Z8pV RTP9AiZ/8sXswXLkH0VVnh4O5W80rdBw9vXwc+zJcaDknrJiQjfrMKEsuJ2dZ4VjRxGkYd9l Z9h9quMmtK2RRB5Nn0ullgTE4e3I4p5pJUFcQIQffXfhGAmeEh7u+ALbOC7wLHScHuSPW5Ti K2HnMDcAEQEAAYkCPAQYAQgAJhYhBDm2QTQ9jBBLKxRtw/nDncC5aYVEBQJgh0E2AhsMBQkG vxrvAAoJEPnDncC5aYVELfkP/j1gVRT5dOfk2yQRftcshV3h91RY3c8MCl/s+RYBXLjv7seE 8nn/Z1VG6IiPcwsBJYnM5Y8oaPvvlLc29shu7D8MLJbPS3jgN3m+MvaU7I6hH7u4xiG7SCFB qj7Xre8eJuToN/Ksl5wBVGic+iSYham4XpHjZEjyv5iH8ksZHhwQosiLr1ogEGBcwWDeg7Di hI41tB82siqKHyhOn06Jmir1DS7OXoMr6biUAPo7Rf1BTFh18BNVBfgrGApgUUfLlX32Myrd TwCVdxyoUYHK71LncaDDbCH5fFRZUHguktC92Sv8smFtoRco6SxGMKyG0g0V82cnpIQtdneT EVaaPsajIaGRmIkpBRw373nY4e4bRL4yxAz7aJW82U23awhUzZym05FQFe8+ksdgGgV+rQj1 8nKkXiNZwdR6hhSzlvc0+GuxWgwMtKPIJU8fBET42yAcvUdYSCAeXsMgAD9X3huV37o+qlZu yJRC737dZBrwdIJvZN1/oZ28CFc84LxrjL5efjbpqw/FXKCe1L47BQ0bL6RyCe8y9qxKeF2f EML6jkrmH28VkkyaFuabMsh7qwQuGReu2BQywdD4ivwsgeFcWB3u/RlOcpDfq/EkdXmrzZ3Y VBaPeCN0EPvffcdA7zoUueFI+JConWbme9Mg3oe++tcDvMKlr0HUGVFVCwkF Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 15:19:38 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.16; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 PostboxApp/7.0.48 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ao57yKJtvgJepo5x9nGX6xeGByvyvmVD6" X-Posted-By: 96.61.105.82 Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Guidelines for RFC post feature-freeze From: ramsey@php.net (Ben Ramsey) Message-ID: --ao57yKJtvgJepo5x9nGX6xeGByvyvmVD6 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="nSBXVqLi6FMVgalXbpD5x2j9Qj9ae56xA" --nSBXVqLi6FMVgalXbpD5x2j9Qj9ae56xA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nicolas Grekas wrote on 8/25/21 12:29: > I would welcome a new RFC to clarify what is allowed during the feature= > freeze.=20 As Derick mentioned in another post (by essentially quoting the Wikipedia entry for "Feature freeze"), this period is a well-understood phase of software development. We use this phase for fixing bugs and stabilizing implementations. Changing how a feature works or adding to a feature classifies as new feature development and is not a bugfix or stability improvement. Even the definition proposed for a "Refinement RFC" is describing new feature development (it proposes "changes, amendments, adjustments to the language while refining an unreleased change that has been approved"). A refinement is a new feature. A bugfix is not a refinement. > As I wrote in another thread, my opinion is that anything that is > not yet released should be re-discussable until either beta or RC stage= , at > least for simple changes (I wouldn't have submitted my RFC if the patch= > wasn't trivial from a technical pov.) We announced Beta 1 on 22 July, which is the same date you opened the Nullable Intersection Types RFC. So, according to your own opinion, you opened it too late for re-discussion. I'm not sure what you mean by "re-discussable." Do you mean that you want to challenge a feature that's already been accepted? I think that's fine prior to feature freeze, but afterwards, unless new information reveals significant risk to the release, we shouldn't attempt to reverse or change the decision of the voters. > WIth the current feature freeze schedule, I realize that there is littl= e to > no room for userland to play with a feature-full binary before it's too= > late to give feedback. I experienced this when I was objected that the = RFC > was 4 months old already. I can't keep up with testing all RFCs. But if= > there is a clear window where such feedback is welcomed, I would happil= y > use it. I think others would too. I think this is a good point. Right now, we don't define this period. Since feature freeze starts at the first beta release, this implies that this period is during the alpha releases. Perhaps we should lengthen the alpha phase to provide more time for userland testing. Unfortunately, through my conversations with other userland library maintainers, many don't want to attempt testing until the release candidates are available, so that's a problem in itself. Cheers, Ben --nSBXVqLi6FMVgalXbpD5x2j9Qj9ae56xA-- --ao57yKJtvgJepo5x9nGX6xeGByvyvmVD6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEObZBND2MEEsrFG3D+cOdwLlphUQFAmEmpdoACgkQ+cOdwLlp hUS1lw//fKHECxQVOlFhDm6T1N8Byu+taGyBMFGw7L5yf8E3lMIDMutjk8pqEmfj ins5QczeYDygtISA/G1tUhXsdiXvHoyHXTKPkr82dMeZHF+oIphZsnFsA+xw8HNa R8edDyDbj6JLVO4In5XKhckfcWzJZ1/+4y/xY4w63tE4ZGkqWvD9R/5egIwvy+8D UjrAYUtO00HGSWtFpT3pvfoqGyEtlKu3x/ulrmIoTDsNrskQcQck7awslTLaYLee ZBLNkQ/fABrR7Jr8IFm+9N3dWrlHbGavtpNfqtkbwg1dm3kgiFBab7zjHF0LyZmZ Wy/5fxzJgxS+7qGDSlQwZL62ghssHPKCJ86jd1y85KHEkD86lH+dkoibE5TMMV1H hbRCV7pjQJtlYA7iD0ApHlZ+t9RVUFnXxBfXkiFSZaFQ9L2I99xWVFsrAODfAt1/ qVhE2FTovnP6ddsXJnyG7nf5um/hJUhmvr92tqZJeFjdRCS6uImv0o9Ud7u04l/z UZQMQ5phwb9IpSYCHvHjqXOPHJJs/oB3Z2Uud9Raz0osa/WruriGPTtNXpfu/TCi G2hPSzYzEbZbBQ7cYnIOtg8KekiIYeoJbF5mus7S/K60Y+fzU4FymPcSLbQdWRDT N43FOGiU9zyze/6B+4HrMkq9/0QleZobqlMfIqhJgyHFDwc9gJs= =LaJy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ao57yKJtvgJepo5x9nGX6xeGByvyvmVD6--