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Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 02:02:45 +0700
Message-ID: <CAEZPtU5hfDLP7i5L4Nr0BM39O+brnLVWefe+QGfMRdvrNGc9vQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Dan Ackroyd <Danack@basereality.com>
Cc: tobias.nyholm@gmail.com, PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Guidelines for RFC post feature-freeze
From: pierre.php@gmail.com (Pierre Joye)

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good evening Dan,

First of all, could you please not merge  many different mails in one
single reply? Thanks.


On Wed, Aug 25, 2021, 1:43 AM Dan Ackroyd <Danack@basereality.com> wrote:

> Pierre Joye wrote:
> > Many additions went through while being incomplete.
> >

> For almost all recent RFCS
> > related to syntax, arguments/return types or properties, I don't think
> > it justifies being added while being incomplete.
>
> I think you are remembering how changes were made to PHP through rose
> tinted glasses.
>

Not really, or actually not at all. Quite the opposite.

Pretty much all of the improvements to PHP's type system were
> 'incomplete' but they were still huge chunks of work, and some of them
> only just got accepted.


This implies that this statement is more accurate than the one in my reply.

Suggesting that (other) people need to do more work to satisfy the
> level of quality you want in an RFC is a good way of stopping any
> major progress from being achieved.
>

I think there is a misunderstanding here. PHP is not at a stage where what
is missing are easy additions like simple scalar return types.

As the recent discussions show, it needs more time to design, plan and
implement the desired additions.

This is why so many languages having reached this level of maturity are
extremely prudent when it comes to very long term syntax or features
additions.

Seeing as a lot of RFCs that improve PHP's type system seem to be the
> last RFC before someone decides to not bother contributing any more, I
> strongly suggest not trying to make it more difficult to get
> improvements made.
>


I understand your concerns and similar concerns have been brought when we
introduced, you guess it, the RFC process.


What I am talking about here is to have more clarity and stability how such
critical additions are approved, or not. Critical not because of the needs
but the permanent state of such additions.

And more importantly, how they are designed to begin with. This is rarely a
short journey nor a one person show. It is hard to have a diverse group
with enough time, knowledge and motivation to work on such ungrateful tasks
(but challenging). Such events create exactly what your comment is saying.

best,
Pierre

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