Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:115507 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 72522 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2021 05:12:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO php-smtp4.php.net) (45.112.84.5) by pb1.pair.com with SMTP; 20 Jul 2021 05:12:09 -0000 Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D09691804DA for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 22:37:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on php-smtp4.php.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Virus: No X-Envelope-From: Received: from mail-yb1-f175.google.com (mail-yb1-f175.google.com [209.85.219.175]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 22:37:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-f175.google.com with SMTP id p22so31241255yba.7 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 22:37:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=9QJg3tCinYQwy9gALbnKpCA0+g6LSfxS6CA2s6hig3c=; b=owSZ2lk1ATn+Dtj57KQSCxzHgKzGC4+XGDX0sesYVQly5qqjSTAFDZE8AgoN14Qbp2 e2ID5qrib7rWlk7+udDFs9OLoN8iFZGrPIqCkwMIvgle2sZbAhOY6+cQJznH882NesJn ACqLPnt4RYZ3owgnuUoLcsDraTjUW1k+msgDWQB070GxzUAmIVuwoMlRpXaZwFx+fuFm G4zXplpLh7gT+Aa2EG1bme9fBlsACLkqunjG60teSNRKvKkBuBkhP/kLss4i+bL3+amM ln1HZBDCjNg4FJgASpvOqnEdo/5/00yoKGBmvs5U6xdEBvqc2F/bGrVCfcXzhU+gn6qV 6zMw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=9QJg3tCinYQwy9gALbnKpCA0+g6LSfxS6CA2s6hig3c=; b=O/cg0DEALS8bW75CYdOx8s7mrbrMDaXeSua/HfiSx0KmPzKvatbweuF38Sp0CZ3pWd kc6I/bFecE3UYv7sYbN5rFQd1iIdV9jYUbiwIAMZDEPVmVpICYuW/KOeWQJMpX40pIoo i2huPP+/o1SDOM9FZE5tXRmvNJbZUo9ml6tpQciIg1XRfxmrmR4aEL69Fi2LR6NdVvBp d7GNf2pedRXzdOE2YPwBfL1AnVsm5M4DFPr5o3lxH+Se7kpMwr3mYE1lwkqWeZ31Az44 /N5+ybRqtkXkDe7SqJS5B7M+S9XWYiyaKSvmKzI9nuwn/UKHyNvQgNJbkYUG52yNu7+3 9rvw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530ik7QyDz9WTnYXrfw3uAhQT6nDBNbZbpTT/Dyg8ySw5+OFnKxX bV956psA1OgjpvG7XmtGh0D5eFqTMdQ4dLP7tDw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwrhk5VgPEJSEeypXyg+9F3902XJZrjRAVggTfBwg0y3AX37W0W1hGS4RTc6w4Vi9vJ9UYl2dn6H7sVDNCYb5w= X-Received: by 2002:a25:da11:: with SMTP id n17mr37053557ybf.428.1626759435621; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 22:37:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <96487D08-8573-4308-A11C-3118113C03DA@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 22:37:04 -0700 Message-ID: To: Nikita Popov Cc: PHP internals Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004b9a9005c7877292" Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Request for karma to vote on RFCs From: tobias.nyholm@gmail.com (Tobias Nyholm) --0000000000004b9a9005c7877292 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you all for your input. I understand that I should be more active on the mailing list to get some history. I think that is reasonable, but I don=E2=80=99t see why that is im= portant. I=E2=80=99m not applying based on my C skills, knowledge of processes or my previous technical arguments. So, I can only assume that you want me to have history because you want to get to know me better in this forum. Which means that if I show a pattern to disagree with you (in the general sense), that would decrease my chances to be granted voting rights. I=E2=80=99m sure that is not what you mean, but that is what=E2=80=99s impl= ied. @Kalle, I=E2=80=99ve not been active on those RFCs simply because I either = agree or don=E2=80=99t care. I know it is a poor answer from me, but it is an honest= answer. ------- I do find that some of you are making the argument that having voting access is like being in the =E2=80=9Celite=E2=80=9D and there should not be= too many people in the elite. I guess it depends on your personality if you choose to see it that way. I also saw suggestions that one has to be a good core developer to be able to influence PHP. I find it particularly strange if it would be a requirement. Being a frequent and valuable contributor to PHP core would bring one perspective to the votes. Spending 5.000/hours yearly on programming PHP would bring you another perspective. The group of people with voting access currently have both perspectives which I think is a good thing. ------ This thread got way more answers and perspectives than I could imagine. I do agree with @Andreas Heigl that it would be good with some clearer processes on how to get and keep(!) voting karma. I will be more public on the mailing lists and share my thoughts if I have anything good to share. I=E2=80=99ll revisit this topic in 6-18 months and = hope that you all know me better then. Regards, Tobias On Mon, 19 Jul 2021 at 01:37, Nikita Popov wrote: > On Sun, Jul 18, 2021 at 8:48 PM Tobias Nyholm > wrote: > >> Hey. >> I would like to get karma to be able to vote on RFCs. I understand that >> voting karma isn=E2=80=99t usually given out to people who write their f= irst >> mailing list entry. >> >> But I do believe I qualify as =E2=80=9CLead developers of PHP based proj= ects >> (frameworks, cms, tools, etc.)=E2=80=9D >> >> For those of you who don=E2=80=99t know me, I=E2=80=99ve been working wi= th open source >> PHP projects since 2015. I am part of Symfony core team, I wrote PSR-18 = and >> was part of the working group for PSR-17. I also maintain Guzzle, >> webmozart/assert, Flysystem, HTTPlug and the php-http ecosystem and abou= t >> 50 other packages with more than 100.000 monthly downloads. >> >> I think I am the most downloaded PHP maintainer. >> >> I have been following the RFCs more closely the past 2 years and I=E2=80= =99ve >> finally gathered some courage to ask for karma. There has not been many >> (maybe just one or two) RFCs where I wished the vote turned out the othe= r >> way. So, I don=E2=80=99t think I would have any radical opinions about f= uture RFCs. >> >> If I=E2=80=99ve understad the process correctly, I do need someone with = a php.net >> VCS account to sponsor me. >> >> My username is: nyholm >> >> Regards >> Tobias Nyholm >> > > Hey Tobias, > > My response here is basically the same as the last time the topic came up= : > https://externals.io/message/110936#110937 Voting is just the very last > step of the RFC process, at which point the proposal can no longer be > influenced. If you have feedback about a proposal based on your extensive > experience in PHP's open source ecosystem, then the discussion phase is t= he > time to provide it, while it can still influence the proposal, as well as > other people's view of the proposal. > > At least in my personal opinion, I think it's important that people > granted voting rights as community representatives have at least some > historical involvement in RFC discussions. > > Regards, > Nikita > --0000000000004b9a9005c7877292--