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Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 18:44:28 +0500
Message-ID: <CAC_PL4x=F+k6i9pCs4C+T-Qbn-yg7-Qtf91LnkUUEdxawVQJ7w@mail.gmail.com>
To: Kalle Sommer Nielsen <kalle@php.net>
Cc: Lynn <kjarli@gmail.com>, Pierre <pierre-php@processus.org>, 
	Tobias Nyholm <tobias.nyholm@gmail.com>, Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Request for karma to vote on RFCs
From: office.hamzaahmad@gmail.com (Hamza Ahmad)

Hello all,

Tobias wants to obtain a right that lets him represent the community
in the RFCs' approval. Tobias, as for the feature requests, you can
discuss and propose your own ideas. You can also obtain RFC karma to
propose your ideas and contribute to the language.

As for the people that are going to give the final vote, PHP
maintainers need to make a proper policy for this process. I am going
to give a basic idea. They can better brainstorm.

The person that wants to have the voting rights may qualify for the following:
1. The person may have RFC karma already.
2. After obtaining an RFC karma, it may have been active on the
mailing list for a specific time period.
3. It may have n number of bugs solved and merged.
4. It may have worked with senior developers of php at least on the n
number of RFCs.
5. Optionally, it may have some of his own RFCs approved or rejected
with minimum percentage.
6. Every person that gets voting rights may have fulfilled the conditions above.

When it qualifies for the above conditions, it can apply for the
voting karma. The people with the voting rights can recognize its
efforts and contributions for the language and finally allow a voting
karma. The karma will be rewarded with a simple majority after a vote.
The conditions that I have suggested above assess following:
1. The person is well aware of PHP and its built system.
2. The person is able to resolve bugs, add new features and improve
existing ones.
3. The person well understands PHP's nature and is able to form the
ideas accordingly.

Tobias's scale of qualification will motivate a large number of people
to ask for the voting rights, and they have the equal right to get the
right to vote. It doesn't matter a core developer maintains n number
of libraries. The thing that matters is the understandability of the
core. If one is able to contribute to the language and its efforts are
visible to the core developers and the community, it may have a voting
right. Yes, having developed numerous libraries can be an edge. Nobody
will object because one receives a karma according to a set policy.

Additionally, when there emerges a policy, it will motivate people to
partake in the discussions, practice their hands on the PHP core and
leverage the company of senior developers. Power to you all.

Best


On 7/19/21, Kalle Sommer Nielsen <kalle@php.net> wrote:
> Den man. 19. jul. 2021 kl. 13.14 skrev Lynn <kjarli@gmail.com>:
>> Currently there are people with voting permissions that do vote, yet do
>> not interact with RFCs or the mailing list. Regardless of the reasons one
>> may have for wanting to vote, the requirements given should be applied
>> equally if this is the argument.
>
> If this is a problem, then why has the voting RFC not been amended to
> require such commentary? That seems like a productive first step in
> solving the issue instead of complaining about it not happening
> automatically
>
>> Yes, and I love it when I see new users interact with the mailing list,
>> even when in the end the questions or arguments changed nothing to the
>> RFC. It shows that people are probably invested. How do you measure
>> investment behind the scenes though? How often has someone decided to not
>> post anything on the mailing list because after testing a bunch of changes
>> proposed, it worked and required no comment?
>
> How can I take that into consideration if no one lets me know about
> that? This argument sounds more to me like an illusion, I cannot read
> minds nor am I into experimentation on the matter, I cannot consider
> what I do not know (similarly to the problem you pointed out above).
>
>> Would every user that one day would want to have voting rights post a "yes
>> I agree" message in every thread in order to show they contribute in
>> discussions?
>
> That is not what I was implying and I am certain you know that. I
> specifically mean the discussions, not the voting itself. Taking
> Tobias here as an example, why is there no feedback from him on the
> RFCs like[1][2][3] (which was recent as in 8.1, this is just a list
> from a quick glance which may or not be accurate), they seem to me
> like an good way he could have given feedback based on the work he put
> forward that he had been involved with.
>
> Why is it that political power should just be given without actually
> taking part of the project and problems here at the PHP project? To me
> that comes off as laziness. "I just want to vote, but take no
> responsibility of maintaining the PHP project"
>
> [1] https://wiki.php.net/rfc/curl_user_agent
> [2] https://wiki.php.net/rfc/fsync_function
> [3] https://wiki.php.net/rfc/fibers
>
>
> --
> regards,
>
> Kalle Sommer Nielsen
> kalle@php.net
>
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