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Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 12:14:01 +0200
Message-ID: <CANS-=pcU7EkECkwk+HqVk8ak1gPqwQ28=DvY5SJm_MEYfmZtTQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Kalle Sommer Nielsen <kalle@php.net>
Cc: Pierre <pierre-php@processus.org>, Tobias Nyholm <tobias.nyholm@gmail.com>, 
	Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Request for karma to vote on RFCs
From: kjarli@gmail.com (Lynn)

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On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 11:47 AM Kalle Sommer Nielsen <kalle@php.net> wrote:

> Why is it then fair to give them voting rights if they only contribute
> their vote but not words before hand? Why is it only possible to give
> feedback in terms of a +1 or -1 and not feedback in text form? Because
> if its only possible in that way, it makes me think that it is purely
> a PR thing which makes me worry that the power vested into the voter
> may not be just.
>

Currently there are people with voting permissions that do vote, yet do not
interact with RFCs or the mailing list. Regardless of the reasons one may
have for wanting to vote, the requirements given should be applied equally
if this is the argument.


> Why is there no dialogs from their side on internals with problems
> they may have with directions? So far I do see a few faces from the
> community like representives static analyzers, Nicolas Grekas and
> Marco Pivetta to name some who actively takes part of the challenges
> at hand and even actively runs RFCs on their own with implementation
> patches, which is fantastic and well deserved in my opinion.
>

Yes, and I love it when I see new users interact with the mailing list,
even when in the end the questions or arguments changed nothing to the RFC.
It shows that people are probably invested. How do you measure investment
behind the scenes though? How often has someone decided to not post
anything on the mailing list because after testing a bunch of changes
proposed, it worked and required no comment? Would every user that one day
would want to have voting rights post a "yes I agree" message in every
thread in order to show they contribute in discussions? Sometimes when I
see a change proposed, I will jump into 3v4l or my `php -a` and test if a
proposed change would work or break anything for an edge case I came up
with. Proposals and changes pretty much always work so I don't reply or
comment, this investment (for lack of better words from my side) can't be
measured.

I would personally be interested in knowing how much work Tobias does
behind the scenes to ensure proposed changes and RFCs work with code run by
thousands, if not millions of developers.

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