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Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2021 15:52:26 -0400
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To: "G. P. B." <george.banyard@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Introduce str_left/right In 8.1
From: mike@newclarity.net (Mike Schinkel)

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> On Jun 24, 2021, at 8:04 AM, G. P. B. <george.banyard@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> Moreover, the fact that only a very restricted number of programming
> languages, which are some of the earliest languages ever, implement =
those
> functions should tell you something about programming language design
> as a whole, which is that many people came to the conclusion that a =
variant
> of substring is a better abstraction than "left/right".

It think the distinction is not so much that is earlier vs. later =
languages, but who the target market is for the languages. For languages =
that offer left() and right() function the average developer skill for =
developers proficient in those language tends to be lower than for =
languages that do not have those functions, compared on a absolute scale =
to the most highly-skilled professional developers, of course.

Erlang has left() and right() string methods, and it is not an earlier =
language.
R is not an early language and it has StrLeft() and StrRight() but R is =
a language targeting data scientists instead of hard core programmers.
Visual Basic is not earlier, but it is based on early Basic. That said =
it has always targeted more line-of-business programmers than =
professional programmers.
Excel, which is an end-users tool has LEFT() and RIGHT() functions. =20
Wikipedia actual has a really nice comparison of languages on string =
handling:

- =
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_programming_languages_(string_=
functions)#left =
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_programming_languages_(string=
_functions)#left>
- =
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_programming_languages_(string_=
functions)#right =
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_programming_languages_(string=
_functions)#right>=20

So a question to ask about PHP we could collectively answer is: Who is =
the target market for PHP? =20

If we collectively want to forsake lower-skilled developers then no, it =
would not make sense to include str_left()/str_right() because few =
programming languages targeting more advanced developers do.

OTOH if we do want to maintain approachability for lower-skilled =
developers and allow them easier success experiences then adding =
functions like str_left()/str_right() make a lot of sense.

Maybe it would make sense to have the community identify and define who =
PHP's target user is, and then put that as a stake in the ground?  If =
that were agreed and explicitly stated on PHP.net <http://php.net/> for =
reference, it sure could help stop a lot of bikeshedding and heated =
debates among people with different visions for the future of PHP. =20

#justsaying
 =20
----

That said, many newer languages use the indexing operator to extract =
substrings of length 2 or more, which PHP does not. =20

Given your comment about early languages are you amenable to adding a =
substring indexing syntax to PHP for strings and arrays?

I quite like how Swift does it, but there are many others:

- Swift: https://stackoverflow.com/a/39677331/102699 =
<https://stackoverflow.com/a/39677331/102699>=20
- Go:   https://www.dotnetperls.com/substring-go =
<https://www.dotnetperls.com/substring-go>
- Python: =
https://runestone.academy/runestone/books/published/thinkcspy/Strings/Inde=
xOperatorWorkingwiththeCharactersofaString.html =
<https://runestone.academy/runestone/books/published/thinkcspy/Strings/Ind=
exOperatorWorkingwiththeCharactersofaString.html>=20
- Ruby: https://stackoverflow.com/a/4528091/102699 =
<https://stackoverflow.com/a/4528091/102699>
- F#: https://dotnetcodr.com/2017/02/18/creating-substrings-in-f/ =
<https://dotnetcodr.com/2017/02/18/creating-substrings-in-f/>=20
- D: https://stackoverflow.com/a/20570677/102699 =
<https://stackoverflow.com/a/20570677/102699>=20
- Mathematica: =
https://reference.wolfram.com/language/ref/StringTake.html =
<https://reference.wolfram.com/language/ref/StringTake.html>=20

-Mike





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