Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:114977 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 72533 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2021 03:36:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO php-smtp4.php.net) (45.112.84.5) by pb1.pair.com with SMTP; 21 Jun 2021 03:36:36 -0000 Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A01601804C9 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 2021 20:54:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on php-smtp4.php.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Virus: No X-Envelope-From: Received: from mail-qk1-f169.google.com (mail-qk1-f169.google.com [209.85.222.169]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Sun, 20 Jun 2021 20:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk1-f169.google.com with SMTP id g142so26951888qke.4 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 2021 20:54:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=datadoghq.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vQf0VcHqjfJjak9f2dTRTn7HpTehEqZSgEUHRlMRz64=; b=B26F5QqRvUdfKKi48mxwnDHfpe43l1ikpR69e2LQCkgZLJrRN0G8H+Ox5RnDLdKTgp ZKEo4BgAQbwYNB1a93InqkOoYYEUFqVLespRZK/wB4c/RCHEmozGivyjOpXSFQS6uo1M nR4uHSmalP60olObRx9BdSv6FoB9QziYBpnTs= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vQf0VcHqjfJjak9f2dTRTn7HpTehEqZSgEUHRlMRz64=; b=D6T4wPxI63OgEO5ubIRbFxII8qikOPlEgBx5wxiBGDZ/cmNgWJ23tFSLInMkFfoQwd 3wCbAYmUnJkHR93g5g/osOdrE1/jWpJIECF5BCL1kb4bUG0y+HfDNkrjEQ1TdHDnnzLB aVoRYMeP6QtQl/cXTNGx0LaaYaEOS9AhMKCuAs2tzd9uzmtDCHXlggYLJRcj+TO5mNAq 2sMc/oPhOKvl+s9CqUAI6dyhVpACXxOzmUh7TW/vGbtcK3TIrlYhlxf0mv/gFqMKkgmb Ft4kKKEs6ln7lC/9zGax9Pt4hJJwPzmNeh6elXvz1hLJv7VUrzwmyaAKZipG1of/+T// ud+A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530FhZtDPRN6eR4LYGadwc3GZ4KDKBrQcJ20TOdEpzwHgBzhnQvI FhRNQHCY+0FZ50JyuZylBSY8VKjDg4Ta/OoB1neuRA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzkFMY/CTJ/+ArhJ/rT49Ed8Oz0amttzSU7dM2E/0Cgr3az/pz4mA2f2B8Xy6BGujWRIbS6JvaynuZh2Sp4EO4= X-Received: by 2002:a25:b993:: with SMTP id r19mr30153738ybg.445.1624247669569; Sun, 20 Jun 2021 20:54:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <222b3921-3d9b-47f9-8d13-e6a123f36fad@www.fastmail.com> <37A59CDF-D3C7-4B3D-B389-CF2D9052C8FF@newclarity.net> <285a489f-c609-423c-ad18-3313c3797cc8@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <285a489f-c609-423c-ad18-3313c3797cc8@www.fastmail.com> Reply-To: Levi Morrison Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2021 21:54:19 -0600 Message-ID: To: Larry Garfield Cc: php internals Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [Vote] Partial Function Application From: internals@lists.php.net ("Levi Morrison via internals") > The thing is, new developers don't think *anything*. There's nothing int= rinsically more "natural" about procedural code vs functional code, or OOP = code, or whatever other paradigm. They're all artificial as far as the bra= in is concerned. People who start off in an OOP language, and are taught O= OP from the get-go, are just as confused by procedural code as someone who = learned procedural is when viewing OOP for the first time. Same for people= who start in FP languages. I mentored many part-time student programmers. I'm not sure why some people use the excuse of explaining syntax and semantics to juniors because all the newbies I worked with had no trouble learning syntax and semantics. They struggled with good design, writing testable code, etc -- very different issues than the technical understanding of syntax and semantics. I think people shouldn't worry so much about mentoring newbies about syntax. Surely you have enough faith in them to learn new things or you wouldn't have hired them! Anyway, the vote currently sits at 14 yes to 10 no. Not a big turnout; still time for it to pass or garner more opposition.