Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:114915 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 4791 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2021 06:14:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO php-smtp4.php.net) (45.112.84.5) by pb1.pair.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2021 06:14:24 -0000 Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88A5A1804D1 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 23:31:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on php-smtp4.php.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_NONE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Virus: No X-Envelope-From: Received: from mail-qk1-f179.google.com (mail-qk1-f179.google.com [209.85.222.179]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 23:31:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk1-f179.google.com with SMTP id g19so2080154qkk.2 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 23:31:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=newclarity-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=HwBAyWqvegPq8kPVQWA1mp55T23Xb3qoLfYT/G4AhM8=; b=pX5G4/NgkQjh+zDqob2E85paOnKZg5ngND3b0TleHczVlJcdV3OE1PS4JYWbf74jk+ wLxNbHWr6T04CBiiNANJIzLK2VnHKZrMCgxV2C4SOHugJuc6fqQ57RqXC0GD+V0qkHsC MBONPy98rr+OIg24PXTTHgp6gJgFLV8g5YA7F/xoRS5TOaWhp0whsJ1gLCpEc/rdKjT8 1AFTcQrBMLdAYPV6GmQ2Q0ZIpxrWK2/GRKgdq3bPRRkAFy/dmrIJIysAlud1dm/pmGt3 GTvbsx4UFaOH2oKlW8JNr/0iQH15kqslL6vCvYM3cPfvd23AlT2hH5AaS/UOxfL/1E1F S6eA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=HwBAyWqvegPq8kPVQWA1mp55T23Xb3qoLfYT/G4AhM8=; b=TGJ1ZQMy+5vpFZgMtHaTwXv0xsmXOD7Obt8HrXi8ldqjCTBYh72PBKLIo9tRuY7Zxw VAB10BBaUHeT3sT0ec2yQpGKEKQzKbXSIHhHXZhrO2c1ftjfLXpbtqH3MGsCCUpHQ7MC EQHbJT/M1k+svferERUAKMnGOTfje0FHWxBMhLVILhi/S5JYVLTDtMpT4mdhKjT15FtR qHmWZabjD4wpL6HGPnwth3zg2BOY9z+bbmV0Qrbw3iZuuNcd6+U2bbuLtQpbZ6BzW7Vv j8kMzJP761wa/4qT09URjab/EFaBH3DztTefUGZAW7lNXmq6VOnOeGzI1R8aTvet3KaJ 7vtw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532QPq38QaCZ5gFXFRBGZEqABevrQdPBI4ZALlNZQ1odVzO6saMy ukCd17AqNaTJWglcbTWfOcIOmA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJznOud9P/1H9XpudhprvjIBcjjVnS5AlK+4gTcmxp9BMeXOuk0V9tweW9Yk/mHquHV/rQlwXQ== X-Received: by 2002:a37:468b:: with SMTP id t133mr2200857qka.189.1623911476140; Wed, 16 Jun 2021 23:31:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.10] (c-24-98-254-8.hsd1.ga.comcast.net. [24.98.254.8]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h2sm1107518qkf.106.2021.06.16.23.31.15 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 16 Jun 2021 23:31:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_318F6D88-150A-4A5D-8EC5-E3174477BBD6" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 02:31:14 -0400 In-Reply-To: <85f85e0e-a926-4b57-8509-72e9c852c78b@www.fastmail.com> Cc: php internals To: Larry Garfield References: <88588b8f-5729-4458-90b1-c602f751e128@www.fastmail.com> <33fd3541-8518-4f98-a258-705f85180ed1@www.fastmail.com> <85f85e0e-a926-4b57-8509-72e9c852c78b@www.fastmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] New in initializers From: mike@newclarity.net (Mike Schinkel) --Apple-Mail=_318F6D88-150A-4A5D-8EC5-E3174477BBD6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > On Jun 16, 2021, at 7:47 AM, Larry Garfield = wrote: >=20 > On Wed, Jun 16, 2021, at 3:16 AM, Nikita Popov wrote: >=20 > Given that constructors that have side effects are arguably broken to = begin with (modulo debugging), I'd be comfortable with explicitly saying = that the evaluation order is undefined, and nothing is guaranteed except = that the value will be there when you first access it. A big thumbs up from me. =20 I cannot think of a scenario in userland where evaluation order prior to = access would matter and not be able to be worked around. -Mike= --Apple-Mail=_318F6D88-150A-4A5D-8EC5-E3174477BBD6--