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Message-ID: <6d8bdb3271108fd3aa9f7ad168746604839ce69b.camel@cmpct.info>
To: Kamil Tekiela <tekiela246@gmail.com>, PHP internals
	 <internals@lists.php.net>
Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 14:02:19 -0300
In-Reply-To: <CAGBsUrePAey_fdAq0S_XtcnPhcXsB=tgnff0TUNfPo-AtTEheQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<CAGBsUrePAey_fdAq0S_XtcnPhcXsB=tgnff0TUNfPo-AtTEheQ@mail.gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Could we drop the bottom-posting rule?
From: calvin@cmpct.info (Calvin Buckley)

I'm just going to say...

- almost all modern mail clients are threaded, it's trivial to view
context, so I want to see replies "above the fold"
- bottom posting goes against the grain of modern mail clients
- overall, it just feels like arbitrary preferences set decades ago;
worst case it feels like hazing against people who don't use mutt/pine

I personally top-post (as it's the default for all the mail clients I
use) when replying unless it's a point-by-point reply, in which case I
reply inline. I'm not bothered by bottom posting nor do I make a fuss
when I see other conventions, but it's more inconvenient to read.

(I also have to set my client to plain text manually per message -
that's another can of worms...)

On Mon, 2021-05-10 at 22:51 +0100, Kamil Tekiela wrote:
> Hi Internals,
> 
> Could we drop the bottom-posting rule?
> 
> Almost all new contributors fall into this trap and reply to a thread
> by
> top-posting, only to get chastised by someone else on the list. It's
> really
> difficult to remember to delete the default reply. Mail clients don't
> make
> it easy for us; it's hidden by default. Bottom-posting makes reading
> the
> thread much more difficult too. The actual reply gets lost in between
> the
> quoted content. I often get confused about what is new and what was
> quoted. Many modern clients are designed to handle top-posting and
> don't
> handle bottom-posting well. People are usually used to it and they
> read
> from top to bottom. I don't know if in the past some mail clients
> defaulted
> to bottom-posting but right now it just seems like an unnecessary
> annoyance.
> 
> If you want to quote someone then it makes sense to copy a part of
> the
> message and then add a reply below, but forcing people to remove the
> default reply from the mail client and then add the whole previous
> message
> on top of your own reply isn't very productive. It wastes time and
> screen
> space.
> 
> Could we please change this rule or at least stop enforcing it?
> Do people actually have mail clients that don't automatically hide
> the
> previous conversation? If not, then I think we can let people top-
> post.
> 
> Regards,
> Kamil