Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:114398 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 72140 invoked from network); 11 May 2021 15:09:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO php-smtp4.php.net) (45.112.84.5) by pb1.pair.com with SMTP; 11 May 2021 15:09:22 -0000 Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 588C5180531 for ; Tue, 11 May 2021 08:17:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on php-smtp4.php.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Virus: No X-Envelope-From: Received: from mail-ej1-f50.google.com (mail-ej1-f50.google.com [209.85.218.50]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Tue, 11 May 2021 08:17:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ej1-f50.google.com with SMTP id m12so30354548eja.2 for ; Tue, 11 May 2021 08:17:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=dtEliJ96Qudkm01LaZ8yU2wVX5CPKrfG5Aqlxoexe8M=; b=J+MV5wrZV+F5D6SqqbWTAkqOMUndpBpQQxT5AFsNbdHmjXNmyQ2dw1P8Sxx8WyhNnu Jgp54NGLTvJDg1TWyg/DaG6BvXh9jVHQkDpsSOFPq5A5zkeq7IwgDzSwps0N4DfdNR5c 2AoEcjPDFHe06T6LI2JLLahBpbzL2KJ4QS+RhbzRSehiIsO3JyEtkJCjYkc0Fnuh0P7f f9aUZQBltawOPq5JjibxeHJuwkYPefaWhnMRwtJCr6ewC1tq9djcKiaHZJmEivQcBS4g KeFrcWfBHTmEVXQjaOUqEilEs+7RH70Gk41LI+nSB4WvIYjZ6rWn+cU83RqLhx+DuMZe uKNQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=dtEliJ96Qudkm01LaZ8yU2wVX5CPKrfG5Aqlxoexe8M=; b=eV/ZCTXHDpz0zoAtS2aUyLgXKPouAauFzhP0cCLd/Pw1ehNbgxE5yFsZjJyhXkm2yX QeosgIBAHCJYKzR3k86PLE4G/TY1M3N5eVROJEAp2ZP5IhadK+OQucZdMhB2DrlyQjuj BBcOdlls8jU0RbaqKm74ZYgI5++xhi7agOBLnXW1kMqaQFLApj7fhr68feAg2mM2hrdB AkwBBGGTMvDuFc1Xie8ddPswLyh050nNVQTWNgI2pFATJ7qvPeAI59VnvzzoACvStuWS vMHTvEtAeQmRdSADV5oURw1w1d7aa3J2bC/0lpsTo3aOl4h1ab5GUxsAEwm0AmnR+jT9 6+Rg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532ZeiiH3j+xlsnt9VMRg4EWKdDJxcTixaCmWfHsH7RZyQmOgIMi TVs+fiWow2yDrHxUwiiN4fw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyosDi7f+QkHQ5MHQ+pdaAT1cmAPGKjwLGgEhsek76XfOoe3CaBt46C5jWQlFK1EjQruwCqfA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:b0cd:: with SMTP id bk13mr32721248ejb.184.1620746228169; Tue, 11 May 2021 08:17:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from claude.fritz.box ([89.249.45.14]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id jt11sm2278016ejb.83.2021.05.11.08.17.07 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 11 May 2021 08:17:07 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.6\)) In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 17:17:05 +0200 Cc: Kamil Tekiela , PHP internals Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: References: To: Marco Pivetta X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.6) Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Could we drop the bottom-posting rule? From: claude.pache@gmail.com (Claude Pache) > Le 11 mai 2021 =C3=A0 09:11, Marco Pivetta a = =C3=A9crit : >=20 > Sure, why not: email clients are decent enough to hide quoted sections > anyway =F0=9F=91=8D >=20 > Heck, even my phone can read top-posts, and the rest of the folks = (reddit, > mostly) use https://externals.io/ anyway =F0=9F=A4=B7 >=20 > Feel free to call me out for top-posting this =F0=9F=98=9B Then, after a first top-post, someone comes and middle-post, and you = have to guess whether they=E2=80=99re bottom-answering the top part or = top-answering the bottom part. Or both. Sure, email clients are decent enough to =E2=80=9Chide quoted = sections=E2=80=9D (which I read: =E2=80=9Chide the mess=E2=80=9D), but = not to sort them. =E2=80=94Claude >=20 > On Mon, May 10, 2021, 23:52 Kamil Tekiela = wrote: >=20 >> Hi Internals, >>=20 >> Could we drop the bottom-posting rule? >>=20 >> Almost all new contributors fall into this trap and reply to a thread = by >> top-posting, only to get chastised by someone else on the list. It's = really >> difficult to remember to delete the default reply. Mail clients don't = make >> it easy for us; it's hidden by default. Bottom-posting makes reading = the >> thread much more difficult too. The actual reply gets lost in between = the >> quoted content. I often get confused about what is new and what was >> quoted. Many modern clients are designed to handle top-posting and = don't >> handle bottom-posting well. People are usually used to it and they = read >> from top to bottom. I don't know if in the past some mail clients = defaulted >> to bottom-posting but right now it just seems like an unnecessary >> annoyance. >>=20 >> If you want to quote someone then it makes sense to copy a part of = the >> message and then add a reply below, but forcing people to remove the >> default reply from the mail client and then add the whole previous = message >> on top of your own reply isn't very productive. It wastes time and = screen >> space. >>=20 >> Could we please change this rule or at least stop enforcing it? >> Do people actually have mail clients that don't automatically hide = the >> previous conversation? If not, then I think we can let people = top-post. >>=20 >> Regards, >> Kamil >>=20