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To: internals@lists.php.net,Kamil Tekiela <tekiela246@gmail.com>,Rowan Tommins <rowan.collins@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3746C84D-AA34-4259-854B-9DB03C071CBD@schlueters.de>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC]: Change Default mysqli Error Mode
From: johannes@schlueters.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Johannes_Schl=FCter?=)



On February 27, 2021 7:29:43 PM GMT+01:00, Kamil Tekiela <tekiela246@gmail=
=2Ecom> wrote:
>> The code shown here
>https://www=2Ew3schools=2Ecom/php/func_mysqli_connect=2Easp is
>relatively correct at the moment=2E Maybe not nice, but it handles the
>error=2E
>That is the second hit on google (after php=2Enet manual) when searching
>for
>"php tutorial mysqli_conect") Most other books, tutorials, =2E=2E=2E teac=
h
>the
>same=2E
>
>w3schools is hardly something that should be regarded as a reputable
>source
>of information=20

That is correct=2E I wouldn't advice following that=2E

> and should not impact the direction PHP is heading in=2E

That I don't agree with=2E The things covered in tutorials and books is wh=
at people use to learn=2E What people learn is what they use for some time =
in their path=2E We have a responsibility towards our users=2E

>This problem comes mostly from the fact that the developers who wrote
>these
>tutorials were unaware that there is automatic error reporting
>available=2E

For many that is true=2E In some cases tutorial writers are happy about th=
e fact that they don't have to teach exceptions early=2E

Error handling in PHP is a mess, but I consider the path towards more exce=
ptions good=2E But has to be done with care=2E

>PHP manual didn't explain this either=2E This RFC proposes to change that=
 by
>making it the default so that people can't miss it=2E
>The reason why I really want this default setting to change is that I
>was
>lied to by books and tutorials when I was learning PHP=2E I wish I knew
>about
>automatic error reporting instead of struggling with invisible SQL
>errors=2E
>I still hold a grudge against the tutorials teaching me manual error
>checking or the use of real_escape_string=2E I do not want new developers
>in
>the era of PHP 8 to suffer the same pain I did=2E

These tutorials are a pain and there is a large group of people creating w=
orst quality content and hoping to benefit from SEO stuff and then earning =
some money from ads=2E Others focus on content and don't get attention=2E T=
hat is a big problem we're having=2E

I disagree however that throwing out errors the readers don't understand h=
elps=2E How many will say "oh the tutorial is broken" and how many will say=
 "my PHP is broken"? Back in my days, I remember, I was more often looking =
for failures by me or my system configuration than blaming the tutorial=2E

[=2E=2E=2E]

>> In 8=2E1 add deprecation notices to mysqli_connect & friends AND to
>access
>to the connection_error (if I remember right that goes via the __get
>hook,
>thus we can add a deprecation note to a "property" access)
>> The later is a good place as many people use the @ operator on the
>connect, but not on the error check=2E
>> In a later version we change it=2E
>> That gives a chance to reach users=2E We will still miss many, but for
>a
>notable amount of people there is a chance=2E
>
>I believe Nikita has proposed it already=2E I am not very happy about it
>as
>this would mostly go unnoticed=2E People who have mysqli error reporting
>silenced often have every other error reporting silenced too including
>deprecation notices=2E Adding such deprecation notice would just create
>another confusing PHP error that developers would have to fix=2E

The difference is: With a deprecation warning we control the error message=
 better=2E

> I am sorry
>to say this about my fellow developers but many of the ones that you are
>targeting with this proposal who wouldn't read an upgrade guide before
>upgrading, are also the ones who would ignore this deprecation warning in
>their error logs=2E "Hey, the code still works, I don't know what this
>deprecation notice is talking about!"
>For these reasons, I am unwilling to go through a deprecation phase=2E I
>believe it would be just a waste of time=2E But if this is the only way
>that
>this change will land in PHP then I would also accept it as a very
>unsatisfying compromise=2E

I don't know why there is a specific time pressure=2E That behavior is now=
 almost twenty years old=2E

And we'll, about visibility: Tutorial writers hopefully don't ignore it an=
d can catch up=2E Also deprecation warnings have a chance to be reported to=
 the authors etc=2E Yes, it won't reach everybody, but we're talking here a=
bout a change affecting huge numbers of systems=2E  If we help just a few h=
undred thousands of those to make a smoother transition it's already a good=
 thing=2E

And yes, there are more people reading deprecstion notices than changelogs=
=2E Outside the enthusiasts only few do=2E Partially since most entries are=
 irrelevant, partially since there are so many changelogs one could read al=
l day, partially since people don't even know what version they are running=
 or that the host is being upgraded by an admin=2E

People look at it, if they notice a problem=2E But they first need a way t=
o even notice=2E Silently ignoring half the code (the existing error handli=
ng) goes unnoticed=2E

Last thing: I truly think it is great that your trying to push this forwar=
d! We always need people coming up here and fixing the painpoints they had!=
 It is easy for people here to get reluctant to change over time and becomi=
ng used to the way things are=2E I only consider the change too rushed=2E

johannes

P=2ES=2E Most people here know it, I assume, but as disclaimer: I am a mem=
ber of the MySQL engineering team at Oracle, where these days, I'm not work=
ing on anything regarding Client APIs=2E All opinions stated are my own=2E