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Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 11:35:37 -0500
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To: Chase Peeler <chasepeeler@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Inline conditional that returns null if falsy
From: mike@newclarity.net (Mike Schinkel)

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> On Feb 24, 2021, at 11:27 AM, Chase Peeler <chasepeeler@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 11:27 PM Mike Schinkel <mike@newclarity.net =
<mailto:mike@newclarity.net>> wrote:
> > On Feb 23, 2021, at 2:05 PM, Rowan Tommins <rowan.collins@gmail.com =
<mailto:rowan.collins@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >=20
> > On 23/02/2021 18:41, Albert Casademont wrote:
> >> Sure, it's not a big deal having to write the ": null" but it =
doesn't add
> >> any value
> >=20
> >=20
> > On the contrary, it adds an important piece of information: that the =
default value is "null", rather than "false", or "0", or "new =
EmptyValue()".
> > For instance, it doesn't seem at all obvious to me that this code =
should produce a null:
> >=20
> > $items =3D [];
> > $itemCount =3D $items ? count($items);
> >=20
> > I might be more convinced that "null" is the "natural" value if the =
left-hand operand was only checked against null, not "falsiness": in =
that case, you can read it as "if it's null, leave it alone". I'd still =
be inclined towards "too specific to use up more syntax", though.
>=20
> If you look at it from a software engineering perspective =E2=80=94 =
which is how I assume most on this thread have been looking at it =E2=80=94=
 being more explicit in the code is probably a better practice than =
saving a few keystrokes.
>=20
> OTOH, if you view it from the perspective of a *templating* language =
=E2=80=94 which is what PHP was initially created to be, for the web =E2=80=
=94 then the reduction in visual noise from omitting ": null" would be a =
nice plus. And in the case of templating, the distinction between null =
vs. false vs. "" would be completely moot.
>=20
>=20
> But PHP isn't just a templating language anymore.

It is not?  If it is not I think a lot of userland PHP developers never =
got that decree.

> If PHP currently had support for omitting the third argument on the =
ternary operator, then I'd be against changes that required it given the =
BC implications.

Can you elaborate on those?

> I think just dropping the need for a third argument on the existing =
ternary operator is a bad idea.
>=20
> I'm ambivalent when it comes to creating a new symbol to support this =
behavior (e.g. ?!). I don't really think it's necessary, but, I don't =
think it hurts anything either.=20
>=20
> =20
> Repeating code similar to that from the message sent by David =
Rodrigues you can see that eliminating the ": null" is less noisy:
>=20
>     <div class=3D"user <?php user ? 'online' : null ?>">...</div>
>     <div class=3D"user <?php user ? 'online' ?>">...</div>
>=20
> Although one  ":null" eliminated is not that significant, PHP =
templates for generating HTML are notorious for having conditionals =
littered throughout, with tens if not hundreds of cases per file.  So =
being able to drop the ":null" would be a really nice addition for =
templating.
>=20
> To emphasize this feature address templating use-cases one might argue =
that dropping the "or" case of the trinary might only be supported when =
between single-line "<?php" and "?>" delimiters.=20
>=20
> -Mike
>=20
> P.S. Of course making it work differently between single-line =
delimiters and elsewhere would create inconsistency in the language so I =
probably would not actually argue that, I was just trying to make a =
rhetorical point.
>=20
> --=20
> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
> To unsubscribe, visit: https://www.php.net/unsub.php =
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>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> Chase Peeler
> chasepeeler@gmail.com <mailto:chasepeeler@gmail.com>

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