Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:112706 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 6361 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2021 20:56:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO php-smtp4.php.net) (45.112.84.5) by pb1.pair.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2021 20:56:11 -0000 Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 337551804D4 for ; Fri, 1 Jan 2021 12:31:28 -0800 (PST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on php-smtp4.php.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,RCVD_IN_RP_RNBL,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_NONE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Virus: No X-Envelope-From: Received: from premium76-3.web-hosting.com (premium76-3.web-hosting.com [162.213.253.118]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Fri, 1 Jan 2021 12:31:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=pmjones.io; s=default; h=Message-Id:In-Reply-To:To:References:Date:Subject:Mime-Version: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:From:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=68qh4TIzdVPX8xxDHAFPh0xgkKbtWMBiZBOpgBDgQO0=; b=YdSMamSoohgPxTllgm7CGCOjg7 r+J1k6r4B+cSF+EqzN2iMOD/13PLKeqE0a4pFiR/ijFg8Yn8t1HVSn6X1zFTwN9h3WnXTraAABgQp QwInuGYipYZWDpkeMNmpqZjQjXSTjJbmsvQIlGZzUghafwevo4P4wtLo74DXeRjZ0m1l/20IkULdU 0ZIvMBm6OlVnWZG226cRCUos4RUC2W7tdgXwJZw9dPfEXZkyeTEYI9V3Uf8cbxLtjeJrqSpGVDNJm RX3pD1sU8JbTTPPG7V5Of5iyqe0XE7pLo/DQLJ4dDloXaQ6Vtyhou1pQhlQvr70y5p/CZFpKJ1hnH tIjwpjfw==; Received: from 107-223-28-39.lightspeed.nsvltn.sbcglobal.net ([107.223.28.39]:52110 helo=samurai.attlocal.net) by premium76.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1kvR4v-002jzq-Ro for internals@lists.php.net; Fri, 01 Jan 2021 15:31:26 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.1\)) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2021 14:31:16 -0600 References: <1d0abb04-4987-43a9-85bc-bccc3bd6be9a@www.fastmail.com> <03108284-740a-4a5d-130f-15b2e67e9df9@mabe.berlin> <459d7ff7-e553-dce9-7d43-c3b1e772e572@gmail.com> <7f4fe9ca-1c20-6f69-cef0-a9718af742a3@gmail.com> <30906866-1971-8395-05a0-fd78d054bb89@gmail.com> To: php internals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0C621FEF-B76F-41F5-A5A8-E6F24D69DD3D@pmjones.io> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1) X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - premium76.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - lists.php.net X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - pmjones.io X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: premium76.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: pmjones@pmjones.io X-Authenticated-Sender: premium76.web-hosting.com: pmjones@pmjones.io X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Analysis of property visibility, immutability, and cloning proposals From: pmjones@pmjones.io ("Paul M. Jones") > On Jan 1, 2021, at 13:14, Larry Garfield = wrote: >=20 >> The web dev discourse is one-sided with regard to immutability,=20 >=20 > Yes, if you've heard any of the regular whining about PSR-7 being an = immutable object you'd think it's one-sided in favor of mutability. To characterize it as "whining" is pretentious. The complaints against = the incomplete and inconsistent immutability of PSR-7 have merit. As one of the sponsors of PSR-7, I have come to regard its = quasi-immutability as one of its main weaknesses, one that we of FIG = should have (but failed) to predict would be more trouble than it was = worth. The fewer people who use it, the better. --=20 Paul M. Jones pmjones@pmjones.io http://paul-m-jones.com Modernizing Legacy Applications in PHP https://leanpub.com/mlaphp Solving the N+1 Problem in PHP https://leanpub.com/sn1php