Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:112648 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 60980 invoked from network); 29 Dec 2020 22:02:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO php-smtp4.php.net) (45.112.84.5) by pb1.pair.com with SMTP; 29 Dec 2020 22:02:02 -0000 Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAEDD1804C4 for ; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 13:36:31 -0800 (PST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on php-smtp4.php.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Virus: No X-Envelope-From: Received: from mail-wr1-f43.google.com (mail-wr1-f43.google.com [209.85.221.43]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 13:36:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr1-f43.google.com with SMTP id m5so15800107wrx.9 for ; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 13:36:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=gnj9OtbSzUuKnPdji84lRDOPNVxEpcMJP9PeGqb5aqQ=; b=laQ+kMpDWwH1V5LZJ69QEugfHVpzNzYK6WEJ9JwXXLEjhmGd3T4V+pWP3WI16HfeRF wR/WhLuC5968D2uC3dnKz7tXr2FtytkSl8mRCE5ciB//Q+a6aBIr1YaEkogyEE1RwVEg MxCCmvnC1BNDDCg8AZlzG2D4J+d+gAZtC/7xc9rhSkWaX+J3n/UUoSyiXIemyN0ziV+S ouZR+tnIa65gqNMfzIyLPTiIugIU6Va+KTxZ6c2FVivc826Ux3M8faCDvv++8rJqYsof 9XfQOoOTfxn+A+QBQ7y6vwu+LOT3L1Z+X0k32XkQpviyxOLWvylIA6kJR6MjSndAJaF5 NE+w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=gnj9OtbSzUuKnPdji84lRDOPNVxEpcMJP9PeGqb5aqQ=; b=THjO8cRYOLQfNpzMSSGf4P56hynPtzBJ5YUKJryOdUudwuE2ERwBrguZ+826y1+7wK bYtTPixrTxdL51v/iCV/sH5kiIxa43E0weiWRwbFPV0d1AdRuMBrj6A3FnWENJX83QZv F69AKTZkcR5ocol/O99CJ1ATG26VUIHZCK1NEvrFfmDW+KxfVzHUyt4OdjqK7B/zpq8I 9gcYRNRcjFL+qdhJQ/d+kHXb+1WHaBa8QJcD8A5KcVtWbTzbKdUFcN2bYA5iXv3Pfk/1 7VwRi8HGxFgbOA4coZXRsq9/Ya6ArufuKY7RulS00ZaPtmUlMFTbMZ/CE6J4Aio56FNv kHaA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532iWngPlUZ6U+KPwS7hdJfzmphVC+aWF8URyYP5W7CbIepZU6Kq j2BeYyMllCniVsQvgjhdXECs2bPNoe0qjg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzJAWkdwa3TANDhM+cDHbTVxsZZEOy0g0bPjbGVhAMmA7Tq5DwSxPMEI55ZPlBYmb32Uz6L5g== X-Received: by 2002:adf:e704:: with SMTP id c4mr57859980wrm.355.1609277787947; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 13:36:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.22] (cpc104104-brig22-2-0-cust548.3-3.cable.virginm.net. [82.10.58.37]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id s3sm4408321wmc.44.2020.12.29.13.36.27 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 29 Dec 2020 13:36:27 -0800 (PST) To: internals@lists.php.net References: <1d0abb04-4987-43a9-85bc-bccc3bd6be9a@www.fastmail.com> <03108284-740a-4a5d-130f-15b2e67e9df9@mabe.berlin> Message-ID: <459d7ff7-e553-dce9-7d43-c3b1e772e572@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2020 21:36:25 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-GB Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Analysis of property visibility, immutability, and cloning proposals From: rowan.collins@gmail.com (Rowan Tommins) On 29/12/2020 10:28, Olle Härstedt wrote: > I just want to mention that immutability might be applied too > liberally in the current discourse, and in some cases, what you really > want is*non-aliasing*, that is, uniqueness, to solve problems related > to immutability. I think methods like `withX` is an anti-pattern, in > fact, and a symptom that you do not*really* want immutability, but > rather uniqueness, at least in some cases. Hi Olle, I'm afraid I don't follow what you mean by "non-aliasing" and "uniqueness" here. Could you clarify, perhaps with some examples? Cheers, -- Rowan Tommins [IMSoP]