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Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 16:24:52 +0200
Message-ID: <CAEPJdukwHgJi_FDV2fQh-vs_0_CH1CknW5KEJ95W6HzgNRTq2A@mail.gmail.com>
To: tyson andre <tysonandre775@hotmail.com>
Cc: Matthew Brown <matthewmatthew@gmail.com>, Roman Pronskiy <roman.pronskiy@jetbrains.com>, 
	Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP 8 release announcement page on php.net
From: kontakt@beberlei.de (Benjamin Eberlei)

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On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 1:56 AM tyson andre <tysonandre775@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi internals,
>
> > As far as php.net can help with PHP's reputation, I think a brief
> homepage
> > intro that showcased some modern-looking PHP code would be great (e.g.
> > typescriptlang.org, golang.org). The docs design could also be
> > slightly tweaked to make everything seem newer, while still keeping the
> > (very good) content basically the same.
>
> That reminds me of an idea I had a while ago:
> One of the features I've seen on many other programming
> languages' documentation and tutorials was the ability to run and edit the
> example snippets.
> It may help in understanding the content of tutorials or example snippets
> for functions,
> - e.g. seeing what happens if code is rearranged
>   or how PHP handles edge cases
> - It also allows new developers to try out php before deciding to install
> it.
>
> Right now, you can read the examples in
> https://www.php.net/manual/en/language.variables.scope.php
> and copy them to run them locally, but you can't run them and see their
> output
> (as plain text or html, depending on context)
>
> Some examples in other languages:
>
> - MDN has JavaScript demos in the browser, e.g.
>
> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/Array/some
> - Rust has https://play.rust-lang.org/ (run on the server side)
> - golang has https://tour.golang.org/welcome/1 (run on the server side)
>
> There's two main options available for testing out php in a browser right
> now:
>
> - A general sandboxed php implementation hosted by the owners of php.net
>   (requires that it be secured and may lead to additional hosting costs),
>   https://3v4l.org/ (not open source https://3v4l.org/about - but similar
> to what I was thinking of)
>   or https://psalm.dev/ (open source) are projects in that area
>   (Matthew Brown is one of the authors of Psalm)
> - A WebAssembly solution, e.g. https://phan.github.io/demo/ (forked from
> https://oraoto.github.io/pib/)
>   (I'm one of the maintainers of Phan)
>
> WebAssembly has some noticeable drawbacks such as requiring a modern
> browser,
> requiring a large download, and requiring more RAM than an ordinary
> website.
> Many other websites for programming languages have moved to sandboxed
> implementations
> hosted on an actual server.
>
> Thanks,
> - Tyson
>

Sorry to step in here as this crowds out the original post too much imho,
this is really a tangential concern from Romans original post though.
Inline execution would be really awesome, but coupling this to a release
announcement to PHP 8 sets both projects up for failure imho.

To expand back to the topic, if we think Romans idea is great, then the
next steps would be to enable Roman to put this in place for the PHP 8
release. Its only 6 few weeks out, so going this backwards i would say

1. October: RMs and/or php-web maintainers should give their go on the idea
(someone else?), so that more detailed creative time investment is not
going to waste.
2. until mid November: Roman's group of contributors have time to finalize
creative design and copywirting
3. until mid November Someone with access to php-web would volunteer to
guide through technical roadblocks / deployment of the release
announcement, maybe keeping it simple as a static html page for now
4. ~20th November: Page is rolled out with a date based feature flag?


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