Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:111661 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 24734 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2020 07:01:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO php-smtp4.php.net) (45.112.84.5) by pb1.pair.com with SMTP; 21 Aug 2020 07:01:23 -0000 Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8D5D1804DA for ; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 23:03:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on php-smtp4.php.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Virus: No X-Envelope-From: Received: from srv015.mail.ichtushosting.com (srv015.mail.ichtushosting.com [159.69.182.195]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 23:03:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=stitcher.io ; s=default; h=To:References:Message-Id:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date: In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID :Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To: Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe :List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=DYOnjTR5fLunWCEoN85v8OuFfKRtjRyFsLy+mRE7y2o=; b=i2zQePU9Mj71lb73o29gBImntl eDxZrlNw6L7UZ4JYk80WaJ38lxsr6HZZUjIHk7TBtV1UkJXFJ8eRkO4T8HMt2GI1PvvTy7+bm+RuU ev7f5tF6XX4NUkXXTMK2imxbOfclsY/+c3QVl3xLmRKXYZxYPpZylLB5FEFZ26OEdnt4UNrtJAWJy xkwUlRMQY4NFx0tWFH6pw7wmE9V3e5u/4+jS0sIO9hMmQYR2r0JRaf8r5Qvp+hVJyZZ33dcHmjGjt B0Yo/9lhUGAbYP3+tjPkE3VoGghZZsIADXJRkWy9Stly22Z74VEJEPOhG/EoNEjYiAev4Uemfi6Z2 Axgm9V+A==; Received: from srv021.web.ichtushosting.com ([78.47.76.72]) by srv015.mail.ichtushosting.com stage1 with esmtp (Exim MailCleaner) id 1k908p-0004a3-PQ from ; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 08:03:08 +0200 Received: from ptr-fq9pjpjhgotw94ud2if.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be (ptr-fq9pjpjhgotw94ud2if.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be [IPv6:2a02:1812:c3c:3a00:e0e6:9e24:7cf1:4bf7]) (Authenticated sender: brendt@stitcher.io) by srv021.web.ichtushosting.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E937120D2C; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 08:03:05 +0200 (CEST) X-MailCleaner-return_path: brendt@stitcher.io X-MailCleaner-sender_address: brendt@stitcher.io X-MailCleaner-recipients: benjamin.morel@gmail.com, smalyshev@gmail.com, internals@lists.php.net, kalle@php.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 08:03:04 +0200 Cc: Stanislav Malyshev , Benjamin Morel , PHP Internals Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <4CB670BF-631C-4113-A71D-700975B58EFB@stitcher.io> References: <4d9d8746-95b3-6afe-8270-f3b7097f143a@gmail.com> To: Kalle Sommer Nielsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) X-MailCleaner-TrustedIPs: Ok Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Community vote on RFCs From: brendt@stitcher.io (Brent Roose) Hi Kalle, all > Anyone who is not actively involved with the PHP project, is not > someone I can feel safe with granting the right to vote.=20 Just want to point out that there are lots of people eligable to vote = who are not actively involved with PHP development at the moment. There = has even been a few occasions lately where I tweet about my point of = view on an RFC which has been in voting phase for over a week, and = suddenly someone replies "Oh that's interesting, I'll vote for that = later today". In other words: a tweet from a random userland developer = reminded someone to vote. What about people who occasionaly contribute to docs? Are they more = eligable to vote than someone like Nicalos Grekas? It's a good thing he = got voting rights, but in my mind that should have been a no-brainer. I = realise some people might get upset with this point of view, but I don't = think that occasionaly contributing to PHP docs makes you a better = representative than having actively shaped the PHP landscape over the = past decade. How many people have voting rights? Over 200 if I'm not mistaken? How = many of those have been activly contributing to PHP for over the past = year? I think that's a better question to answer. If half of those = people's voting rights get revoked then maybe there's room to allow a = few more key community figures to participate? > I very much agree with Stas here. I agree too btw. There's no need for official community polls, I feel = like the key figures of PHP's core team already do listen to the = community.=20 Kind regards Brent > On 20 Aug 2020, at 15:48, Kalle Sommer Nielsen wrote: >=20 > Den tor. 20. aug. 2020 kl. 01.07 skrev Stanislav Malyshev = : >> Please feel welcome to. However, I don't think this should have any >> official role in any PHP governance process, any more than any other >> poll on the internet might. That said, my opinion is hearing other >> opinions is rarely harmful and frequently useful, so why not. >=20 > I very much agree with Stas here. I think it should be up to the > individual RFC author to put out feelers for feedback from userland, > because going to internals is the final judgement. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Regarding the link to the thread in the initial email, while it is not > impossible to get voting rights. There is a very high barrier of > entry, if you are not involved with the PHP project, then being > granted voting rights is absurd and can easily flood the usual Core > Developer voting turnout, we had a similar debate about this in the > spring of 2019 in regards to the PHP FIG which was heavily disputed. >=20 > Anyone who is not actively involved with the PHP project, is not > someone I can feel safe with granting the right to vote. Should I also > gain the right at any PHP based project to vote on whatever democratic > process they have because I am a maintainer of PHP? No I shouldn't. If > I'm involved with a project in question, then that changes the > perspective but it is still up to the project to decide on how to > proceed here. >=20 > --=20 > regards, >=20 > Kalle Sommer Nielsen > kalle@php.net >=20 > --=20 > PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List > To unsubscribe, visit: https://www.php.net/unsub.php >=20