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Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 10:33:48 -0500
To: "php internals" <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Community vote on RFCs
From: larry@garfieldtech.com ("Larry Garfield")

On Thu, Aug 20, 2020, at 8:48 AM, Kalle Sommer Nielsen wrote:
> Den tor. 20. aug. 2020 kl. 01.07 skrev Stanislav Malyshev <smalyshev@gmail.com>:
> > Please feel welcome to. However, I don't think this should have any
> > official role in any PHP governance process, any more than any other
> > poll on the internet might. That said, my opinion is hearing other
> > opinions is rarely harmful and frequently useful, so why not.
> 
> I very much agree with Stas here. I think it should be up to the
> individual RFC author to put out feelers for feedback from userland,
> because going to internals is the final judgement.
> 
> 
> 
> Regarding the link to the thread in the initial email, while it is not
> impossible to get voting rights. There is a very high barrier of
> entry, if you are not involved with the PHP project, then being
> granted voting rights is absurd and can easily flood the usual Core
> Developer voting turnout, we had a similar debate about this in the
> spring of 2019 in regards to the PHP FIG which was heavily disputed.
> 
> Anyone who is not actively involved with the PHP project, is not
> someone I can feel safe with granting the right to vote. Should I also
> gain the right at any PHP based project to vote on whatever democratic
> process they have because I am a maintainer of PHP? No I shouldn't. If
> I'm involved with a project in question, then that changes the
> perspective but it is still up to the project to decide on how to
> proceed here.

I've had very good success with explicitly non-binding polls/surveys in the past with FIG.  They can really help to cut through the "a few loud people say X, but we don't know if that's actually the broad position" problem.  I'd support such a mechanism being *available* to RFC authors.  That would be a better way to "poll the audience" than the current "Go read reddit and see what they said" mechanism.  It also can allow for non-binary questions, like gauging opinion on something from 1-10 (or 1-7, or whatever).  Specifically:

* Some standard recognized way of doing so.  That could be as simple as "use a Google form and remember to ask these specific questions" (which is what I did for FIG).
* It's optional for RFC authors to use or not.
* It's very clearly labeled a survey, not a binding vote.
* RFC authors should use it before an actual vote starts.
* Voters can give the poll results as much weight as they feel like giving it.

I think that could be a useful data gathering tool without rocking the status quo too much.

--Larry Garfield