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In-Reply-To: <CAJmjfvUOF2GvLjapOFqcEuj4ORkiW92d7gq0gF30hx+mxMs0wA@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 00:34:13 +0300
Message-ID: <CANeKSiQU31ZGYTMCwpQOkUFRwYGHaK=-kibcFswNGb6zE-qhMA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Jakob Givoni <jakob@givoni.dk>
Cc: Benjamin Eberlei <kontakt@beberlei.de>, Benjamin Morel <benjamin.morel@gmail.com>, 
	=?UTF-8?B?TWljaGFlbCBWb8WZw63FoWVrIC0gxIxWVVQgRkVM?= <vorismi3@fel.cvut.cz>, 
	PHP Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e4f04205ad198863"
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Shorter Attribute Syntax Change
From: benas.molis.iml@gmail.com (Benas IML)

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On Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 12:25 AM Jakob Givoni <jakob@givoni.dk> wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 11:32 AM Benjamin Eberlei <kontakt@beberlei.de>
> wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 10:39 AM Jakob Givoni <jakob@givoni.dk> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Benjamin,
> >>
> >> I'm sorry, but I don't understand your argument.
> >> It's true that annotations used to be enclosed in a docblock, but that
> >> is not an argument for saying that attributes NEEDS to be enclosed in
> >> a block too.
> >> It's also true that attributes can be followed by many different
> >> things, but still it doesn't follow that block enclosing is NECESSARY.
> >> What I'm saying is that there is still no good argument for why
> >> attribute block syntax is better than non-block syntax.
> >> The only argument that was presented in the original RFC was not
> >> convincing, and I pointed out why.
> >
> > Nobody says it's ultimately **necessarry** as @@ can work.
>
> Thanks for the clarification. This is the first time I've heard
> someone from the block-delimiter camp concede that @@ is not
> necessarily objectively "terrible" (as you yourself put it almost a
> month ago), as it was made out to be.
>
> The question is now if it's reasonable at all to change something for
> 99% purely subjective reasons (no other substantial fact has been put
> forward other than the VIM argument) well past feature freeze (yes I
>

In the future, syntax with an ending delimiter might help us to not run
into new parsing issues like `@@` did.

And yes, the future DOES indeed matter. I hate when people who don't
contribute to or maintain the php-src actively try to tell otherwise.

know it's not a feature, but it's still controversial), even past the
> beta3 date. And still without respect for letting the discussion phase
> run its course before putting to a vote.
>
> May I remind everybody of a few words long ago from our release manager
> Sara:
>
> > I'm fine with this or any syntax, but FF is 13 days away, you're going to
> > have to give me something more substantial than "It maybe breaks
> something
> > somewhere somehow".
>
> > Regards the vote; I don't believe that @@ has been proven unworkable,
> > however if I'm wrong about that, then the second choice selection from
> the
> > last vote would obviously take precedence.
>
> > If that's the case, then the solution still seems obvious: Defer
> attributes
> > to 8.1. I know a LOT of people will not be happy about that, but it's
> the most
> > responsible thing to do if the threat of forking up is that present and
> > that dangerous.
>
> How did we end up here? What started with "[...] a deep sense of
> unease that we collectively made the
> wrong decision [...]" may have taken a turn for the worse when it
> comes to confidence in the process and the community.
> Or is it just me being dramatic? :-D
>
> All the best,
> Jakob
>
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>
>

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