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In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.23.453.2008041440380.7489@singlemalt.home.derickrethans.nl>
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 23:07:12 +0100
Message-ID: <CAJd4=YaGdv5VFzeoG9-Ez4OdXDR53RGB1y5nLAFPx=sxn=p8HA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Derick Rethans <derick@php.net>
Cc: PHP Developers Mailing List <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Shorter Attribute Syntax Change RFC 0.2
From: mail@pmmaga.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Pedro_Magalh=C3=A3es?=)

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Hi Derick,

I'd like to reinforce the idea that this RFC (as all RFCs) needs a Yes/No
primary vote which should attain a 2/3 majority to pass. As it was the case
with https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shorter_attribute_syntax, it had a primary
vote asking "Are you okay with re-voting on the attribute syntax for PHP
8.0?" and that vote passed with 50 to 8.
The primary vote on this RFC could be the exact same question, but I
believe the primary vote needs to be there. Without this primary vote, we
could be enacting a change that only (with 4 options) 25%+1 voters support,
which is clearly insufficient. However, if 2/3 of the voters agree that
something needs to change, they are also accepting that the change may not
be the one they prefer.

From the voting RFC (https://wiki.php.net/RFC/voting#required_majority):
"The primary vote of an RFC, determining overall acceptance of the
proposal, may only have two voting options and requires a 2/3 majority.
This means that the number of Yes votes must be greater than or equal to
the number of No votes multiplied by two."
On the same RFC we can also find information about the format of secondary
votes which mandates a simple majority, this should disqualify STV:
"Additionally, an RFC may have secondary votes, which are used to decide
implementation details. Such votes may have more than two voting options
and may be decided by simple plurality. This means that the voting option
with the most votes wins. If there are multiple options with the most
number of votes, it is left at the discretion of the RFC author to choose
one of them."

I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with the changes you propose, but I
think that all RFCs should follow the rules that are laid out. Those rules
were last changed by an RFC which also required a 2/3 majority (
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/abolish-narrow-margins), so if you want to change
the requirements to accept an RFC, you should propose them and they should
be accepted before proposing a RFC which does not abide to these
requirements.

Regards,
Pedro

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 2:45 PM Derick Rethans <derick@php.net> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Out of Banjamin's suggestion[1], I've updated the Shorter Attribute
> Syntax Change RFC to reflect that process:
>
> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shorter_attribute_syntax_change
>
> Patches and comments welcome.
>
> FWIW, this has an excemption from the RM Sara as per [2]:
>
> > * Shorter Attribute Syntax Change
> >    - Joe/Derick - Please make sure this RFC moves along and reaches
> >      conclusion by beta3, as discussed previously.
>
>
> cheers,
> Derick
>
> [1] https://externals.io/message/111218#111261
> [2] https://externals.io/message/111286#111286
>
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