Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:111005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 45324 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2020 19:32:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO php-smtp4.php.net) (45.112.84.5) by pb1.pair.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2020 19:32:22 -0000 Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10EBE18053A for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2020 11:24:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on php-smtp4.php.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Virus: No X-Envelope-From: Received: from bisque.elm.relay.mailchannels.net (bisque.elm.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.212.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Tue, 14 Jul 2020 11:24:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|josh@joshbruce.dev Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5431341BC0; Tue, 14 Jul 2020 18:24:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a34.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-8-55.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.8.55]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 03A743417BD; Tue, 14 Jul 2020 18:24:49 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|josh@joshbruce.dev Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a34.g.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.8); Tue, 14 Jul 2020 18:24:49 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|josh@joshbruce.dev X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Bottle-Dime: 7e81bba3354cd761_1594751089580_1081208455 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1594751089580:1727879635 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1594751089580 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a34.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a34.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E69D7F1BD; Tue, 14 Jul 2020 11:24:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=joshbruce.dev; h=from :message-id:content-type:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to :cc:to:references; s=joshbruce.dev; bh=eqSqQlL9BXqkUBw0u0M3oOtCo DI=; b=aWOJkE80GrjgaCHvm5eIjylTFRohrw+CFTS1NhLMQtYjGfEwKhsdD84cz vk0sACQj7vxuSjHeh4WDAXGlb4NFXIXi6C/BegycBvTI200E9PKGHdPm6ioQRjXu WFcY0o//QeNoxO2/bfsEokXeffq70P6Oaur5u9i0+HArYfftjM= Received: from joshs-mbp.lan (21.140.29.136.in-addr.arpa [136.29.140.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: josh@joshbruce.dev) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a34.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 53A637F1B3; Tue, 14 Jul 2020 11:24:46 -0700 (PDT) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a34 Message-ID: <823C5CA7-4A9E-4D58-8832-B6894673C2F8@joshbruce.dev> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1754C8B3-B8FA-4341-8DAE-FEC889C6CC2F" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2020 13:24:46 -0500 In-Reply-To: <75D49E2F-C355-4ACA-9B36-8B3C561B6D6A@joshbruce.dev> Cc: Larry Garfield , php internals To: "Christoph M. Becker" References: <7238EFA9-8BE4-48E2-B6C6-6C3E14CFA208@joshbruce.dev> <650DF548-4D3C-4AE6-8A15-82BAF2106B77@joshbruce.dev> <79a16564-75be-6ebd-4777-5b0da4d2b0d2@gmx.de> <75D49E2F-C355-4ACA-9B36-8B3C561B6D6A@joshbruce.dev> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: -51 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduiedrfedtgdduvdejucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpffftgfetoffjqffuvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmnegoufhushhpvggtthffohhmrghinhculdegledmnecujfgurhephffktgggufffjgfvfhfosegrtdhmrehhtdejnecuhfhrohhmpeflohhshhcuuehruhgtvgcuoehjohhshhesjhhoshhhsghruhgtvgdruggvvheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepieegfeevieduveekleffvedvudduvedtkedvjedtgedtudfgjedvueekveevvdegnecuffhomhgrihhnpegsihhtrdhlhienucfkphepudefiedrvdelrddugedtrddvudenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhhouggvpehsmhhtphdphhgvlhhopehjohhshhhsqdhmsghprdhlrghnpdhinhgvthepudefiedrvdelrddugedtrddvuddprhgvthhurhhnqdhprghthheplfhoshhhuceurhhutggvuceojhhoshhhsehjohhshhgsrhhutggvrdguvghvqedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehjohhshhesjhhoshhhsghruhgtvgdruggvvhdpnhhrtghpthhtohepihhnthgvrhhnrghlsheslhhishhtshdrphhhphdrnhgvth Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [CONCEPT][DISCUSSION] Allow objects to declareemptiness and by extension truthiness From: josh@joshbruce.dev (Josh Bruce) --Apple-Mail=_1754C8B3-B8FA-4341-8DAE-FEC889C6CC2F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jul 14, 2020, at 1:24 PM, Josh Bruce wrote: >=20 >=20 >> On Jul 13, 2020, at 12:14 PM, Christoph M. Becker = wrote: >>=20 >> On 13.07.2020 at 17:18, Josh Bruce wrote: >>=20 >>> Re the wiki: I can edit pages now, it doesn=E2=80=99t look like I = can create them. There=E2=80=99s another thread I=E2=80=99ve been = watching and I think I need more karma to make that a thing. I will = continue working on this and if it generates enough pull then maybe = I=E2=80=99ll be let in - I=E2=80=99ll also contribute where I can to = start earning karma. >>=20 >> You have RFC karma now. >=20 > Christoph: Wow, okay. Thank you! >=20 > All: I=E2=80=99ve decided to go ahead and do one more round using = GitHub (big changes - kind of a synthesis of directions so far based on = feedback). >=20 > Then I=E2=80=99ll spend time transferring it to a draft (or = discussion??) and making sure I understand the process more than I do at = present. >=20 > Nikita: >=20 > Re falsiness: Switching back to being more about truthiness and = falsiness. Thanks for the feedback. >=20 > Re nullsafe: I agree that nullsafe handles the issue of null being = returned and it=E2=80=99s a welcomed workaround, but it doesn=E2=80=99t = address the problem of null being returned instead of a false (empty) = object of the desired type that can be acted upon - even if limited. >=20 > Brings up the new question again: Under what circumstances would PHP = return null without a developer explicitly asking it to (somewhere in = the call chain) or without PHP error? >=20 > Cheers, > Josh >=20 ps. Link: https://bit.ly/php-0002 - sorry= --Apple-Mail=_1754C8B3-B8FA-4341-8DAE-FEC889C6CC2F--