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Message-ID: <650DF548-4D3C-4AE6-8A15-82BAF2106B77@joshbruce.dev>
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Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 10:18:00 -0500
In-Reply-To: <fb00cedd-79c4-49c6-994a-2d6e924c7c65@www.fastmail.com>
Cc: php internals <internals@lists.php.net>
To: Larry Garfield <larry@garfieldtech.com>
References: <7238EFA9-8BE4-48E2-B6C6-6C3E14CFA208@joshbruce.dev>
 <fb00cedd-79c4-49c6-994a-2d6e924c7c65@www.fastmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [CONCEPT][DISCUSSION] Allow objects to declare
 emptiness and by extension truthiness
From: josh@joshbruce.dev (Josh Bruce)

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>> Latest version as we zero in on what this is really about:=20
>> https://bit.ly/php-0002 <https://bit.ly/php-0002>
>>=20
> 1) The 2 places that you have lists of "this thing produces =
true/false" could likely stand to be turned into tables to make it =
clearer, especially when demonstrating that isEmpty() and __toBool() are =
effectively opposites of each other so we get a 2-for-1 deal.

I appreciate this idea - done.

>=20
> 2) Include some less-random examples of real "empty" objects.
>=20

I=E2=80=99m having difficulty with this, to be honest. I think there are =
two reasons for this:

1. I avoid null to the point of going out of my way to make it not =
happen - including implementing =E2=80=9CisEmpty=E2=80=9D - =
simultaneously I=E2=80=99m having a hard time, which could mean it=E2=80=99=
s a solution looking for a problem (was thinking about a file cabinet =
with drawers that would accept folders).

2. I have a very specific use case where this would solve a problem for =
me. It mainly revolves around the ability in PHP to make an object in =
such a way that it =E2=80=9Cfeels=E2=80=9D like an array - and =
=E2=80=9Cfeels=E2=80=9D like a string - and can become an integer - but =
there=E2=80=99s no way to make the object feel like and be interacted =
with like a bool. I don=E2=80=99t want my use case to be the only reason =
a change like this is introduced to PHP - I want to make sure =E2=80=9Cit=E2=
=80=99s not just me=E2=80=9D - you know??

Re the wiki: I can edit pages now, it doesn=E2=80=99t look like I can =
create them. There=E2=80=99s another thread I=E2=80=99ve been watching =
and I think I need more karma to make that a thing. I will continue =
working on this and if it generates enough pull then maybe I=E2=80=99ll =
be let in - I=E2=80=99ll also contribute where I can to start earning =
karma.

Updated: https://bit.ly/php-0002 <https://bit.ly/php-0002>

Cheers,
Josh=

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