Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:110555
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <BY5PR15MB3729227C6536FA3D0EBE2335929C0@BY5PR15MB3729.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
 <4b921c5f-db2b-1e2a-ed2a-1add5c9b6663@gmail.com> <20200615174645.GP14030@phcomp.co.uk>
 <CANS-=peH1x-1LAr6pxp4bvToVB8hQ7GT_2xynsDmp1W7bDR7ag@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADK1yXJEV_Kuxhr6LqLd+9sXkaboXH5cLW3NnJBaa7=Op72ZXg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJW__o12mwJ68=yKQzNTAGf+ViFV-=TMhhtRPw9weP1wJ+at5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADK1yXLhKubQXvQrt4-zgS4BftyAyXeMHvYm+=qsH+UB8os3+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJW__o2+4r3BZ9_ieCAFjo5KA5Pde7seJNJ467ntkFR+kBJ1vA@mail.gmail.com>
 <BY5PR15MB372932B9BCA1637E74D427CB929C0@BY5PR15MB3729.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAJW__o0hO=94K76eVkaDYyQOM2qA5am2u=_xwrs0sQdysK4O3A@mail.gmail.com> <BY5PR15MB3729D75E6FC997BC50CCEC42929D0@BY5PR15MB3729.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
In-Reply-To: <BY5PR15MB3729D75E6FC997BC50CCEC42929D0@BY5PR15MB3729.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 03:23:05 +0300
Message-ID: <CAJW__o3uEjRbFk8ta6ALV3ay7dZE8y_K7742QNxVNOM8YcgHJg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Daniel Rodrigues Lima <danielrodrigues-ti@hotmail.com>
Cc: Deleu <deleugyn@gmail.com>, Lynn <kjarli@gmail.com>, 
	PHP Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] About the use of the terms master/slave and blacklist,
 proposal to replace.
From: kalle@php.net (Kalle Sommer Nielsen)

Den tir. 16. jun. 2020 kl. 03.09 skrev Daniel Rodrigues Lima
<danielrodrigues-ti@hotmail.com>:
>
> I fully understand the consequences of the discussion we are having here.=
 Sorry, but it is not nice to assume things about any PHP member. I didn't =
"throw a ball in the air at random", and I'm not scared by the negative res=
ponses themselves, I'm just surprised in a negative way.

If you fully understand the consequences of this conversation, then
why was none of these potentially negatives laid out in the first post
for topics of problems to be resolved? The analogy of "Throw the ball
in the air randomly" was meant to show no research besides a few links
was posted, there was no concrete plan that lists potential issues you
would need to overcome to accomplish this in the first place, similar
to what Nikita pointed out, there was no research done on this in the
first place either. Which is why I doubt (assume) that you did not
fully understand the consequences of the conversation, it did not
leave me with the impression in any way that you did, if you say you
do that now then okay I believe you. I am in no way implying you
should be scared by the responses.

But you still have not provided any potential direction you wish to
take other than "What do you think about changing X symbol name to Y
symbol name?" (if you boil the question down). You listed the only pro
as using naming that does not cause negative feelings for black people
specifically in your first post. There have been no cons listed
either, you have heard some from some of the actual language
maintainers and some for the community. You did not mention how you
plan to tackle upgrade paths, targeted versions or anything. If you
just throw the question out there without a concrete plan to begin
with, you are not gonna get far. If you however take an active lead
and steer the direction of your plan, then the conversation would
potentially look different because then you could begin to flesh out
the problems at hand and come with a unified solution that could
perhaps satisfy the audience that you need for this change to pass.

--=20
regards,

Kalle Sommer Nielsen
kalle@php.net