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Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 01:50:04 +0300
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To: Deleu <deleugyn@gmail.com>
Cc: Lynn <kjarli@gmail.com>, PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] About the use of the terms master/slave and blacklist,
 proposal to replace.
From: kalle@php.net (Kalle Sommer Nielsen)

Hi

Den tir. 16. jun. 2020 kl. 00.41 skrev Deleu <deleugyn@gmail.com>:
> People arguing BC breaks without even knowing the scope of the change
> clearly show biased.

I am sorry but I do not think you understand the scale of which the
PHP project is at. Any change we make to the language has consequences
for hundreds of millions of websites running PHP, potentially millions
of developers who work with PHP and so on. Therefore any change that
breaks backwards compatibility in any way has to be justified. We have
a rather strict BC policy, something that allowed you and millions of
others to easily upgrade from PHP5 to PHP7 with next to no changes for
the most part. Do I personally believe that a change of name for some
directives, potentially more, are justified? No I do not. That is my
personal bias here.

Let's assume that 10% of the current user base of PHP upgrades to
whatever version a change like this is implemented. The number of work
hours spent on investigating, updating, testing and patching these BC
breaks which are changes for the sake of change is a crazy amount of
hours invested into it. Opcache is a very popular extension, changing
an ini directive means change of build systems, you can certainly
argue that these changes could potentially just be changed by a tool,
but even doing so will have cost a substantial amount of hours to
implement and test. It is easily in the thousands of hours, a normal
work year for me is about 1900 hours in terms of hours for just one
person. Demanding that our users should invest so many hours besides
the usual amount for already upgrading to a PHP version is lunacy,
especially if the change is to try censor something that has no
correlation to any racial slurs.

So to say that the arguments about BC breaks (which I believe I was
the only one to post about in this thread) without knowing the scope
of the change is void. Yes, any policy for backwards compatibility
breaks can easily be classified as biased, because they are an opinion
of the project as a whole, or rather, a policy.


> As white men, we're being dismissive, insensitive and strongly suggesting
> we don't want change. While people may not feel offended by any of these
> terms being discussed, this thread alone already serves as reason for
> people to feel like there's no room for diversity in the internal community
> of php.

The "we" in this is extremely biased, it attempts to force me to feel
as an inferior human (to steal the term from Larry above), because I
do not agree with your request for a change. The classification you
just did there is something I personally would feel offended by,
because you attempt to use my ethnicity as an argument for why I feel
the way I feel.


> I believe that if we cannot come together to take the small (potentially
> insignificant) step towards making changes that signal a welcoming
> environment, how are we going to actually take the big steps?

We could start by taking steps that matters for once, censoring words
that have no correlation to any racial issue because it might offend
someone because it has the word black in it. What about whitespace? Am
I a nothing, an empty space just because I am caucassian? There are
other issues we should tackle to make PHP better, after all, we have a
major version in the works, set to release later this year. Something
(excuse my bias here) is way more important than trying to justify
backwards compatibility breaks for no reason.

-- 
regards,

Kalle Sommer Nielsen
kalle@php.net