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Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 17:37:59 -0500
Message-ID: <CAESVnVrFX2RU-u+B=_1VEGTOOCHKBvA0FTXk_Vz+Rx9bqzsftA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Deleu <deleugyn@gmail.com>
Cc: Lynn <kjarli@gmail.com>, PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] About the use of the terms master/slave and blacklist,
 proposal to replace.
From: pollita@php.net (Sara Golemon)

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On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 4:41 PM Deleu <deleugyn@gmail.com> wrote:

> As white men, we're being dismissive, insensitive and strongly suggesting
> we don't want change. While people may not feel offended by any of these
> terms being discussed, this thread alone already serves as reason for
> people to feel like there's no room for diversity in the internal community
> of php.
>

This.   We are (by and large) an awfully pasty group to be saying "This
isn't a real problem" and dismissing it out of hand.

A white person saying, "These words aren't problematic" is like responding
on bugs.php.net with "It works on my machine".


> I believe that if we cannot come together to take the small (potentially
> insignificant) step towards making changes that signal a welcoming
> environment, how are we going to actually take the big steps?
>
> OP initially came to Gabriel and I (as 8.0 RMs) to judge our response on a
small scale.  My answer was essentially "That's not my call, take it to
internals@" which he did, and frankly I'm disappointed by the reaction he
got.  I'm not saying this HAS to happen, or even necessarily SHOULD.  I
really don't know if these words are a problem or not because I'M NOT
QUALIFIED to answer that question.  I really wish we'd had a better
discussion than what we've started with though.

As to BC; You know I hate BC breaks for academic reasons, and (at the
moment) this certainly feels like a BC break for academic reasons, but
again... Don't know how abstract the problem is, just offering my pasty
hot-take.  It also doesn't have to be a violent BC break.  We can alias new
names to old and have a nice leisurely migration path on the way to 9.0 (or
even 10.0).

Last, regarding neutrality.  This proposal is literally aimed at adopting
more-neutral language.  It's not a partisan move to say that harmful
language should be avoided.

-Sara

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